What - no thread about how the moon landings were faked?

[Sean]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcKLAo62Ro

The Apollo 11 press conference with the three astronauts is one weird video: they're clearly lying their heads off and seriously don't want to be there. But it's likely not because they didn't go but because they had another agenda when they were there (says Hoagland et al).

Armstrong's other occasional speeches are also extremely cryptic.

[knight66]

I think that this is excellently put:

"The theorists, he noted, never give up. "They'll say you have to keep an open mind," he said, "but they reject every single piece of evidence that doesn't adhere to their thesis."

Mike

[MishaK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcKLAo62Ro

The Apollo 11 press conference with the three astronauts is one weird video: they're clearly lying their heads off and seriously don't want to be there. But it's likely not because they didn't go but because they had another agenda when they were there (says Hoagland et al).

Armstrong's other occasional speeches are also extremely cryptic.

Sean, they are pilots, not politicians, for f%^k's sake! They are not trained public speakers. By your standards, my cousin's best man at her wedding was in on some conspiracy because he f$#king stammered during his speech!

Have you ever watched a press conference after a soccer game? Have you ever seen a soccer player who sounded like he actually "wanted to be there"? No! Of course not! If this press conference is "evidence" for some alleged lies or conspiracies surrounding the Apollo program, then no soccer matches were ever played in the English Premier League or in the Bundesliga, because all their press conferences sound equally uncomfortable = they must be lying! 

[Szykneij]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcKLAo62Ro

The Apollo 11 press conference with the three astronauts is one weird video: they're clearly lying their heads off and seriously don't want to be there. But it's likely not because they didn't go but because they had another agenda when they were there (says Hoagland et al).

Convinces me!!! If I had just returned to earth from walking on the moon, I would have been much more thrilled to be sitting in a suit at an exciting and awe-inspiring press conference to relieve the boredom of the past few days.

         

[drogulus]

Good article, Joe. Some excerpts relevant to another thread:

Ted Goertzel, a professor of sociology at Rutgers University who has studied conspiracy theorists, said "there's a similar kind of logic behind all of these groups, I think." For the most part, he explained, "They don't undertake to prove that their view is true" so much as to "find flaws in what the other side is saying." And so, he said, argument is a matter of accumulation instead of persuasion. "They feel if they've got more facts than the other side, that proves they're right."

    This is also the method of the Discovery Institute. They never say out loud what their alternative theory is, though in the DI case there are also legal/constitutional reasons for keeping mum. From my perspective all conspiracy buffs look dishonest at first blush, but on reflection it becomes clear that the real problem is incapacity. Thinking about traumatic events and the causes of them creates severe emotional constraints on the use of the logical/empirical methods that all finders of fact use whether they are practicing science, preparing a report on a disaster, conducting historical research, or finding the best route to Grandma's house. Emotional shocks can make you revert to a more primitive form of thinking/feeling where what matters most is who's with you and who's against you. So facts are not to be decided, since they are symbols for the side you're on. You are not really free to choose the best explanations, they are chosen for you by your prior commitments, a procedure that I always object to.  

[bwv 1080]

The psychology is interesting.  The typical profile of the conspiracy nut is an undereducated / underemployed white male who gravitates toward a narrative that provides him a feeling of control and superiority to compensate for the stigma he feels for his low social status.  Also, have you all noticed (Sean & Rob Newman as cases in point) that no one seems to believe just one crackpot conspiracy

[MishaK]

    This is also the method of the Discovery Institute. They never say out loud what their alternative theory is, though in the DI case there are also legal/constitutional reasons for keeping mum. From my perspective all conspiracy buffs look dishonest at first blush, but on reflection it becomes clear that the real problem is incapacity. Thinking about traumatic events and the causes of them creates severe emotional constraints on the use of the logical/empirical methods that all finders of fact use whether they are practicing science, preparing a report on a disaster, conducting historical research, or finding the best route to Grandma's house. Emotional shocks can make you revert to a more primitive form of thinking/feeling where what matters most is who's with you and who's against you. So facts are not to be decided, since they are symbols for the side you're on. You are not really free to choose the best explanations, they are chosen for you by your prior commitments, a procedure that I always object to.  

Precisely! That is exactly what is so profoundly offensive about conspiracy theorists, especially those of the 9-11 kind: they nonchalantly abuse the memories of disaster victims for no other purpose than to feed the narcissistic beast inside them. They masturbate with dead people. By subscribing to abstruse conspiracy theories they can romantically convince themselves that they are so much smarter than the rest of us, that they are leading a valiant battle against the powers that be, against all odds. Indeed, that's why the goal isn't even really to persuade any of us. If their creed were the majority, the romantic appeal of subscribing to an oppressed minority view disappears.

[Wendell_E]

By your standards, my cousin's best man at her wedding was in on some conspiracy because he f$#king stammered during his speech!

Obviously, he's involved in a torrid affair with the bride.  Or the groom.  Possibly both.

[Sean]

Menschy, there are 1500 comments on that video and they're all right in saying there's something mightily odd about those three characters. Don't tell me you watch premier league football though- that is drivel for the masses. As for your crazed raving desire to support the official very very obviously manufactured uncritical official view of the world, whatever the goons at the media-governmental complex say it is to be, well minds like yours are sure in for a serious kick from behind. You think you know what art is? You're on the wrong forum.

bwv 1080- control, superiority, underemployed, uneducated: you wouldn't just quit the truly brainless inuendo stuff and look at the facts I suppose?

[bwv 1080]

bwv 1080- control, superiority, underemployed, uneducated: you wouldn't just quit the truly brainless inuendo stuff and look at the facts I suppose?

the facts are so obvious one has to look elsewhere for explanations

[Sean]

The Apollo program wasn't faked (there's a great spoof fake documentary on Youtube somewhere about Nixon arranging a film set then having those involved tracked down and eliminated), but Hoagland is right to draw attention to some peculiar aspects of it.

[MishaK]

Menschy, there are 1500 comments on that video and they're all right in saying there's something mightily odd about those three characters.

The mob says 'they're witches! Burn them!' They must be right. No doubt.  

Don't tell me you watch premier league football though- that is drivel for the masses.

No, I don't watch football or any other professional sport for that matter. But I've seen a sufficient enough amount of TV to know better than to place excessive weight on completely superfluous news conferences delivered by tired, inarticulate people who would rather be somewhere else than talk to the idiots that comprise the press corps.

As for your crazed raving desire to support the official very very obviously manufactured uncritical official view of the world, whatever the goons at the media-governmental complex say it is to be, well minds like yours are sure in for a serious kick from behind. You think you know what art is? You're on the wrong forum.

Last I checked, I am musically literate and you are not. Let's not even start comparing our academic accolades. But certainly, you, the critical thinker with a mind so open Korean culture found it as impenetrable as a 767 didn't find the WTC impenetrable, you who has no grasp of logic, you are the one to lecture the rest of us.  

[Sean]

Nice try Mensch- we're in parallel universes, one where we look at evidence and think like an independent human mind and another where you become a happy sponge. I'll take the 1500 over your millions of uttery passive zombies soaking and soaking up the unbelievable media white noise. I'm not even half trying to counter you here, it's not worth it; try Armstrong's speach where he compares the Apollo crews to parrots ie copying what's given them to say, and being poor fliers. Let's also see what he says on Monday...

[Szykneij]

Menschy, there are 1500 comments on that video and they're all right in saying there's something mightily odd about those three characters.

Some of those comments are from people who have a problem with the U.S. flag appearing to fly in the vacuum of the moon. I remember as a kid of 14 watching the moon landing coverage on TV and having a commentator (probably Walter Cronkite who just passed away) explain that the flag to be planted was rigid and designed to stay unfurled because of the moon's lack of atmosphere.

[drogulus]

Precisely! That is exactly what is so profoundly offensive about conspiracy theorists, especially those of the 9-11 kind: they nonchalantly abuse the memories of disaster victims for no other purpose than to feed the narcissistic beast inside them. They masturbate with dead people. By subscribing to abstruse conspiracy theories they can romantically convince themselves that they are so much smarter than the rest of us, that they are leading a valiant battle against the powers that be, against all odds. Indeed, that's why the goal isn't even really to persuade any of us. If their creed were the majority, the romantic appeal of subscribing to an oppressed minority view disappears.

    I don't think I can agree with your characterization entirely. Nonchalance is not part of it. There is more than a little hysteria involved. These people feel threatened. The theories are an attempt to reclaim control that's been lost. So I agree with you in part.

   

[Taxes-]

What an achievement really, it's amazing to think that they were able to do this 40 years ago, goes to show what you can accomplish when you've got the budgets, the motivation and a boatload (rocketload?) of brilliant minds of your side.

The current schedule is that they want to go back there in 10 years or so. There's many people worried about these projects though, some think that it might divert funding from more productive research opportunities.

[david johnson]

the landing was a fake.  i was there waiting for them and nobody showed up.

gloob
lunar govenor

[MishaK]

    I don't think I can agree with your characterization entirely. Nonchalance is not part of it. There is more than a little hysteria involved. These people feel threatened. The theories are an attempt to reclaim control that's been lost. So I agree with you in part.

Oh, I agree there is an excess amount of hysteria. With 'nonchalance' I was referring to the indifference with which they walk over the bodies of those who died in events like 9-11.

[Szykneij]

What an achievement really, it's amazing to think that they were able to do this 40 years ago, goes to show what you can accomplish when you've got the budgets, the motivation and a boatload (rocketload?) of brilliant minds of your side.

It will seem even more amazing if you ever get a chance to visit Cape Canaveral and the Kennedy Space Center. I was there a few years ago and discovered I have more technology today in my garage than mission control did for those Mercury, Gemini and Apollo missions.

[drogulus]

     

Oh, I agree there is an excess amount of hysteria. With 'nonchalance' I was referring to the indifference with which they walk over the bodies of those who died in events like 9-11.

    Indifference, yes.

Nice try Mensch- we're in parallel universes, one where we look at evidence and think like an independent human mind and another where you become a happy sponge. I'll take the 1500 over your millions of uttery passive zombies soaking and soaking up the unbelievable media white noise. I'm not even half trying to counter you here, it's not worth it; try Armstrong's speach where he compares the Apollo crews to parrots ie copying what's given them to say, and being poor fliers. Let's also see what he says on Monday...

     See, this is what you get. If everything the media says is a lie, you can't afford to consider normal human reactions among reporters, like the desire to excel at what they do and uphold high standards of truth and fairness, common values among journalists even though they are not always honored as they should be. And in order to maintain the viability of conspiracy thinking you can't easily give it up. How can these reporters be so honest and diligent concerning one great issue and then turn into dehumanized pawns the next day? No, the remorseless logic of conspiracy insists that everything must be a conspiracy, and dishonesty must be total. The theorists can't afford to admit even once that the vast universe of enemies they imagine is composed of ordinary people and not monsters or robots.