Death

[Iconito]

I’m not in the mood to battle my broken English in order to produce an eloquent exposition of... er... OK, my point is: You are aware that you are alive, and you are aware that you will die someday. You are aware of these (and a whole lot of other) things, because you are alive. The instant you are dead, you’ll stop being aware of anything, including the very fact that you just died. So, your own death is something that you can’t experience. There’s no death for you. You are immortal.

Discuss (or let it die peacefully  )

BTW: It’s pretty obvious that I’m leaving the “afterlife” totally out of the question. If you believe in that, please refrain from posting here, unless you are willing to check your beliefs at the door.  

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EDIT (38 replies later...)

The OP turned out to be highly inept. No biggy. Let’s try again.

This discussion begins with an assumption: There’s no afterlife. When you die, you die completely. You cease to exist. Zilch. You can’t even realise that you just died, because there’s no more “you” to realise anything. Your death will be very real for those who outlive you but, as far as it concerns you, your own death will never happen.

The first thing I should have stated much more clearly than I did is that discussing the validity of that assumption is totally out of the question. That’s a different thread, if you like. This is like “Let’s discuss morals assuming there’s no God” or “Let’s discuss 9/11 assuming all those conspiracy theories are false”. You just don’t mention God or Loose Change in those threads. You simply either play along or keep out.

So, now that that’s (I hope) clear: There is no death for you. Have you ever thought it that way? What are the implications (if any) to your life? (like, how much sense does fear of dying make? or, how much power does someone pointing a gun to your head have? etc)

There. 

[Opus106]

The instant you are dead, you'll stop being aware of anything, including the very fact that you just died.

How do you know that?

[Josquin des Prez]

Faith can assume any form.

[Bulldog]

I'm not in the mood to battle my broken English in order to produce an eloquent exposition of... er... OK, my point is: You are aware that you are alive, and you are aware that you will die someday. You are aware of these (and a whole lot of other) things, because you are alive. The instant you are dead, you'll stop being aware of anything, including the very fact that you just died. So, your own death is something that you can't experience. There's no death for you. You are immortal.

Even if you're correct, so  what?  You live, you die.  That's the natural order, and as people get older, they become more accepting of the end.

[Iconito]

How do you know that?

Well... It’s not like I KNOW that. I’m just going by available evidence and some common sense, I guess... Do you KNOW otherwise?  

Faith can assume any form.

Please don’t go the “reasonable-assumption-based-on-available-evidence equals Faith” way. That’s lame, and it’s strictly forbidden in this thread.  

Even if you're correct, so  what?  You live, you die.  That's the natural order, and as people get older, they become more accepting of the end.

The “so what” is the “discuss” part, you see?   For instance; many people are awfully afraid of death, many people wish they were immortal, many people worries with “the things I want to do before I die”, etcetera (a long etcetera) So: What happens if I am correct (as you put it) and, as far as it concerns you, there is not death?

[Opus106]

Well... It's not like I KNOW that. I'm just going by available evidence and some common sense, I guess...

Available evidence! Now, where might I find that?

Do you KNOW otherwise? 

Nope. That is why I asked you.

[Iconito]

Available evidence! Now, where might I find that?

That shouldn’t be a problem. It’s available. Anyway, many people have more difficulties with the “common sense” part, so don’t overlook that.

Nope. That is why I asked you.

Then I hope I answered your question.

You know... Smart-ass-one-liners are really not what I had in mind. If you care to elaborate your position and engage in a respectful discussion, by all means do so. Otherwise, please (please!), find something else to do.

[Herman]

Discuss (or let it die peacefully  )

My prediction is this topic won't die peacefully.

[zamyrabyrd]

Please don't go the "reasonable-assumption-based-on-available-evidence equals Faith" way. That's lame, and it's strictly forbidden in this thread.  

Why do people get all techy and defensive at the very mention of Faith like it's some dirty word? In the absence of any material evidence, Faith is all we have. Otherwise, the VOID.

ZB

[Wendell_E]

The instant you are dead, you'll stop being aware of anything, including the very fact that you just died. So, your own death is something that you can't experience. There's no death for you. You are immortal.

Just because you're not aware of the fact that you just died, doesn't change the fact that are mortal, and did die.

Anyway, it's not death that bothers me, it's the dying.

[DavidW]

That shouldn't be a problem. It's available. Anyway, many people have more difficulties with the "common sense" part, so don't overlook that.

Hah!  How is it available?  Do you bring people back to life and ask them about it?  And there is no concept of "common sense" here because we have no informed intuition through experience to guide us.  Duh.

Now how can you ask for a discussion, when you explicitly disallow the life after death discussion?  You want us to discuss something we know nothing about, but also want the discussion not to include our beliefs about what happens at that point.  What is there left to discuss exactly?  Have you really thought this through?

[Opus106]

You know... Smart-ass-one-liners are really not what I had in mind. If you care to elaborate your position and engage in a respectful discussion, by all means do so. Otherwise, please (please!), find something else to do.

They were one-liners, I agree with only that part. If it's smileys that you want, I'll be happy to post some.

Anyway, I was just pointing out that your claim that a dead person is not aware of his - um - "state" is as much supported by evidence as is the concept of an afterlife. And you use this claim to make another one, that every person born in this world is destined (using the term loosely) for immortality.

And if you're just going to say that the evidence is available without showing it to us, you're just pulling a Newman.

The instant you are dead, you'll stop being aware of anything, including the very fact that you just died. So, your own death is something that you can't experience. There's no death for you. You are immortal.

That's from the perspective of the dead person only. And if he even has a perspective, then surely he must be aware of his not being able to experience death. And that's being aware of something. A contradiction.

[vandermolen]

I like the argument of Epicurus, along the lines of:

Where Death is, we are not; where we are, death is not; therefore, Death is nothing to us.

I discovered this quote in the booklet notes for Lou Harrison's Symphony No 2 'Elegiac'

[karlhenning]

Why do people get all techy and defensive at the very mention of Faith like it's some dirty word? In the absence of any material evidence, Faith is all we have. Otherwise, the VOID.

Right.  Anyway, the idea that everything which is important to know, we can know for certainty, is itself an article of faith.

Another furry creature chasing its tail . . . .

[karlhenning]

I like the argument of Epicurus, along the lines of:

Where Death is, we are not; where we are, death is not; therefore, Death is nothing to us.

I discovered this quote in the booklet notes for Lou Harrison's Symphony No 2 'Elegiac'

Beauty!

[karlhenning]

Anyway, it's not death that bothers me, it's the dying.

I am not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens.

[Szykneij]

"When I die, I hope I go quietly...in my sleep...like my grandfather did. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." -- anonymous

[Dr. Dread]

I assume it will be like before I was born.  0:)

[karlhenning]

Ah, how I remember those days!

[Dr. Dread]

Ah, how I remember those days!