Was Beethoven romanticism or realism?

[paganinio]

1. I don't know whether the term "realism" is used in music. I read it on literature textbooks.

2. I don't know whether "romanticism" is an ambiguous term.

3. Beethoven's music sounds realistic to me, because it reflects the hardship and cruelty of reality. But he is also categorized as romanticism. Confusing?

[Gabriel]

None of them. For Beethoven, classicism.

[DavidW]

3. Beethoven's music sounds realistic to me, because it reflects the hardship and cruelty of reality.

We need to have an emo post of the month award!

[Josquin des Prez]

He was a romantic classicist, as opposed to the classical romantics like Mendelssohn, Brahms, Dvorak ect.

[Sorin Eushayson]

He was a romantic classicist, as opposed to the classical romantics like Mendelssohn, Brahms, Dvorak ect.

I like that, fits perfectly! 

[Diletante]

He was a romantic classicist, as opposed to the classical romantics like Mendelssohn, Brahms, Dvorak ect.

Hey, it's the first time I like a post of yours!

[jochanaan]

1. I don't know whether the term "realism" is used in music. I read it on literature textbooks.

I don't recall ever hearing it used in a musical context, and I've been around music for a while.  Music and realism would seem to be two incompatible concepts.

2. I don't know whether "romanticism" is an ambiguous term.

It is.

3. Beethoven's music sounds realistic to me, because it reflects the hardship and cruelty of reality. But he is also categorized as romanticism. Confusing?

Well, Beethoven is right on the cusp of the new musical movement, so it's not surprising you're confused! Although many disagree with me, I can't help thinking of Beethoven as the first of the great romantics, for even though he was a great master of classical forms and idioms, he soon moved beyond classicism's accepted parameters.

[Todd]

I don't recall ever hearing it used in a musical context, and I've been around music for a while.  Music and realism would seem to be two incompatible concepts.

It is.

Well, Beethoven is right on the cusp of the new musical movement, so it's not surprising you're confused! Although many disagree with me, I can't help thinking of Beethoven as the first of the great romantics, for even though he was a great master of classical forms and idioms, he soon moved beyond classicism's accepted parameters.

The above response cannot be bettered.

[ChamberNut]

I always think of Beethoven as the first Romantic.  I know its not true, but that's still what I think anyways.  And The Eroica symphony was the gateway into Romanticism. 

[jochanaan]

I always think of Beethoven as the first Romantic.  I know its not true...

Oh?  I thought it was as true as the "opposite" viewpoint.

And The Eroica symphony was the gateway into Romanticism. 

Actually, I think of Beethoven's Romanticism as exploding from the very first chord of his Pathetique Sonata, Opus 13.

[ChamberNut]

Actually, I think of Beethoven's Romanticism as exploding from the very first chord of his Pathetique Sonata, Opus 13.

Hmmmm.  Yes, it is in a way, his very first "breakout, this is me" piece! 

[Florestan]

Actually, I think of Beethoven's Romanticism as exploding from the very first chord of his Pathetique Sonata, Opus 13.

Agreed. And that first theme of the Allegro... and the Adagio cantabile... and the Rondo...

He was a romantic classicist, as opposed to the classical romantics like Mendelssohn, Brahms, Dvorak ect.

This pretty much sums it all.

[Dr. Dread]

Everyone knows Beethoven was romealism.  0:)

[Gabriel]

Hmmmm.  Yes, it is in a way, his very first "breakout, this is me" piece! 

Actually I'd say it was quite before: 1790, with the Cantata on the Death of Joseph II, WoO 87.

Great classical music.

[schweitzeralan]

1. I don't know whether the term "realism" is used in music. I read it on literature textbooks.

2. I don't know whether "romanticism" is an ambiguous term.

3. Beethoven's music sounds realistic to me, because it reflects the hardship and cruelty of reality. But he is also categorized as romanticism. Confusing?

I've never come across the term "realism" as it relates to music. I do remember, however, that I had read years ago about Debussy's dislike of his music's being labeled as impressionistic and thay his works are not dissimilar to many French painters of the late decades of the 19th century. Debussy complained and supposedly said that his music was "realist," like the paintings of the English Turner.

[Dana]

I do remember, however, that I had read years ago about Debussy's dislike of his music's being labeled as impressionistic and thay his works are not dissimilar to many French painters of the late decades of the 19th century. Debussy complained and supposedly said that his music was "realist," like the paintings of the English Turner.

      He may also have protested because the person who coined the term "impression" meant it in a derogatory fashion, implying that Monet had poor brush technique. With that said, it wasn't long before the term lost the negative connotations. More importantly, he always identified with the symbolists more than the impressionists, if he can be said to have identified with anyone.

[Rod Corkin]

He was a romantic classicist, as opposed to the classical romantics like Mendelssohn, Brahms, Dvorak ect.

That's interesting, I've often referred to Beethoven as a 'Baroque Classicist'.

Emotively Beethoven has little or nothing in common with his Late Classical/Early Romantic contemporaries. Many years ago I read someone claim that 'Beethoven always had one foot in the Baroque' and I have not found reason to disagree with it ever since. There is no frivolity in Beethoven, no melodrama either, the only sentiments I can equate with Beethoven come from the earlier age.

[Dana]

      Really? You hear no commonalities between the string quartets of Beethoven and Schubert? How about the symphonies Beethoven and Mendelssohn? Or the piano chamber music of Beethoven and Schumann?
      How about his violin concerto, or his 4th & 5th piano concertos, how do they sound baroque-ish to you? The 6th, 7th, and 8th symphonies? Is there no melodrama in the 5th symphony, or the string quartet op.132?

[Gurn Blanston]

      Really? You hear no commonalities between the string quartets of Beethoven and Schubert? How about the symphonies Beethoven and Mendelssohn? Or the piano chamber music of Beethoven and Schumann?
      How about his violin concerto, or his 4th & 5th piano concertos, how do they sound baroque-ish to you? The 6th, 7th, and 8th symphonies? Is there no melodrama in the 5th symphony, or the string quartet op.132?

Do you say that melodrama is an exclusive province of the Romantics? I think not!

[ChamberNut]

That's interesting, I've often referred to Beethoven as a 'Baroque Classicist'.

Rod, could you please provide some examples?  I've never thought of Beethoven and Baroque music, other than his admiration of both Handel and Bach.