The right way to go for Chopin's Piano Concerti?

[Mark]

The ones in the DG Trio box? Good performances, lightweight yet poetic. For flair you'd have to listen elsewhere, but back then Vasary had a very lovely touch in Chopin.

From the original CD transfer, actually - borrowed from the library.

[BachQ]

Having sorted out (I hope) my Brahms Piano Concerti problem,

........ ummmmm ......... guess again .........

[Mark]

........ ummmmm ......... guess again .........

Brett, I knew you'd chime in sooner or later.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Ugh good god no. That ponderous drawling claptrap? If you want Zimerman, his early live recording of PC 1 with Kondrashin, once on a DG CD, is the one to hear IMO. Still, not a favourite.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!

That Zimerman/Polish Festival Orchestra recording is a beaut!

I fully concur with head-case.

Pogorelich's recording is good, too. Despite the presence of Pogorelich!

[Harry]

Chopin concertos are difficult, I think Pires on Erato works for me but not quite, so I will lurk a little and see what comes out.

[Steve]

Chopin concertos are difficult, I think Pires on Erato works for me but not quite, so I will lurk a little and see what comes out.

I found them largely inaccessible for a long time. Getting a livlier recording certainly helped. 

[Que]

I'm resonably satisfied with my Rubinstein/Barbirolli recordings ('30s), but I haven't found the ideal performances either.

I think balance between piano and orchestra is a big problem in many recordings, maybe a HIP recording could solve that.

BTW, is the Hofmann recording Sidoze and others referred to? (Vai Audio)



Q

[Harry]

As Que said, for me too the balance Orchestra/Piano is quite a problem, and also the tempi. Being played overly romantic too and blurring the already blurred lines makes it even worse.

[Que]

As Que said, for me too the balance Orchestra/Piano is quite a problem, and also the tempi. Being played overly romantic too and blurring the already blurred lines makes it even worse.

Fully agree with you on this, Harry.

Q

[sidoze]

BTW, is the Hofmann recording Sidoze and others referred to? (Vai Audio)

Yes that's the one. Are you familiar with Hofmann? He's quite different.

Rubinstein's earliest recording of the PCs is my favourite of his and one of the best around IMO (partly because of Barbirolli who was always a superb accompanist). In fact there's a live performance of Rubinstein playing Chopin PC 1, I believe with Barbirolli (can't recall for sure as I no longer have the CD), taken from the early '40s and that one had more drive to it. Naturally it was on a rather obscure CD (Italian I think).


As for PC 2, with Pollini my favourite was Severin Eisenberger, an old, live recording made with a very sloppy Cincinnati Orchestra, released on Pearl. The piano playing is gorgeous though. And Eisenberger was a Leschetizky pupil.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!

That Zimerman/Polish Festival Orchestra recording is a beaut!

I refer you to this, especially the "plodding" part 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q7Z9d9x2zQ

[sidoze]

Being played overly romantic too and blurring the already blurred lines makes it even worse.

If by "overly romantic" you mean slower than normal, I think that works to its advantage (PC 1 for sure anyway). In fact two very young pianists--Sokolov and Lustchevsky (Luszczewski)--recorded it in this slow, poetic (but not heavy -- Zimerman) manner, and it works very, very well IMO. Not to mention it's remarkable for such young pianists (in their 20s at the time) to take such individual and insightful approaches to the music. Zimerman attempts to emulate such an approach but just ends up plodding along. His early recordings, espeically the live one, sound quite natural in comparison.

In any case, the so-called lines usually get blurred when played too quickly, not too slowly. Just listen (if possible) to the clarinets which are supposed to float over the piano in the coda of the 1st movement, PC 1. They're either inaudible or completely blurred almost every time (partly because it's played too quickly and partly because the pianist will usually emphasise his/her part too strongly). The only recording I've heard which really has them float up in the most nostalgic manner is the Sokolov/Rowicki.

Incidentally the Luszczewski recording is on a rather obscure Montblanc CD which apparently comes with that very expensive Chopin fountain pen (which I didn't buy mind you). His discography is here: http://www.raphael.art.pl/cd.htm

[George]

Yes that's the one. Are you familiar with Hofmann? He's quite different.

I take it the tempos are faster than the norm here? Could someone post the timings?

[orbital]

I take it the tempos are faster than the norm here? Could someone post the timings?

Tempos are just fine, but they have gone the other route and cut the orchestral introduction (they actually fade it out after a few seconds  )
Timings for PC1 is 15, 8.5, and 9 mins

[karlhenning]

If by "overly romantic" you mean slower than normal, I think that works to its advantage (PC 1 for sure anyway). In fact two very young pianists--Sokolov and Lustchevsky (Luszczewski)--recorded it in this slow, poetic (but not heavy -- Zimerman) manner, and it works very, very well IMO. Not to mention it's remarkable for such young pianists (in their 20s at the time) to take such individual and insightful approaches to the music. Zimerman attempts to emulate such an approach but just ends up plodding along. His early recordings, espeically the live one, sound quite natural in comparison.

In any case, the so-called lines usually get blurred when played too quickly, not too slowly. Just listen (if possible) to the clarinets which are supposed to float over the piano in the coda of the 1st movement, PC 1. They're either inaudible or completely blurred almost every time (partly because it's played too quickly and partly because the pianist will usually emphasise his/her part too strongly). The only recording I've heard which really has them float up in the most nostalgic manner is the Sokolov/Rowicki.

Incidentally the Luszczewski recording is on a rather obscure Montblanc CD which apparently comes with that very expensive Chopin fountain pen (which I didn't buy mind you). His discography is here: http://www.raphael.art.pl/cd.htm

Very interesting, Tony, thanks.

[George]

Tempos are just fine, but they have gone the other route and cut the orchestral introduction (they actually fade it out after a few seconds  )
Timings for PC1 is 15, 8.5, and 9 mins

Thanks. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I refer you to this, especially the "plodding" part 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q7Z9d9x2zQ

Where you see black and white I see only color!

[BachQ]

Looks like everyone has agreed on Zimerman ........ well, good then ........

[Mark]

You think? Not going NEAR Zimerman after that Brahms Piano Concerto No. 1 with Rattle/BPO.

[BachQ]

You think? Not going NEAR Zimerman after that Brahms Piano Concerto No. 1 with Rattle/BPO.

Well, in that case, I will go to great lengths to ensure that you get a copy of the Zimerman ........ 

[Botafogo]

Can't comment on the Argerich cd Mark.

My personal favourites are Pollini EMI for the 1st & Pogorelich/Abbado DG for the 2nd.

With a word or two for the sublime Rubinstein on RCA for both 

Tony,

I agree on Pollini/Kletzki, but my choice for the second is Zimerman/Giulini/Los Angeles.

Kindest regards.