Classical Music and Newcomers

[Novi]

Have you ever introduced newbies to classical music? How did you gear it towards their tastes?

Would you take someone who's relatively new to classical music to a performance of Wozzeck? I was quite keen to take a friend to this (it would be his first opera), but am now having second thoughts. My feeling is that he'll like the hardcore, primordial, punch-in-the-gut nature of the work, but I think I might be basing that on my own first response to the music. I know these things are hard to pick, but if he doesn't like it, it will be 2+ hours of tedium. Another consideration is that the surtitles won't be in English and I'm not sure whether there'll be enough light to read an English libretto in the theatre.

What do you think?

[The new erato]

My experience is that you NEVER know what will turn another person into, or away from, classical music. A good friend of mine who started in earnest 5-6 years ago, sucks up romances, chamber music, solo piano and early music, but absolutely detests all orchestral music, particularly romantic music (he likes Haydn symphonies!), and any kind of concerto.

[(poco) Sforzando]

(1) It will be 2+ hours of tedium.
(2) Another consideration is that the surtitles won't be in English and I'm not sure whether there'll be enough light to read an English libretto in the theatre.

(1) Wozzeck is only 90 minutes long; therefore at worst it will be 1+ hours of tedium.
(2) No one should try to read a libretto during a live performance. The libretto or a plot synopsis can be read beforehand.
(3) By all means take your friend. Let him make up his own mind. As erato says, you never know.

[Dana]

      Absolutely take your friend, that's spot on! So many people try to convert people to classical music by handing them a disc and calling it a done deal. Music is a performance based art, and the performance needs to be experienced, not relayed through a computer reproduction. In my experience, many times the energy of performance is much more important than the music itself. In other words, your friend is more likely to walk out of the concert hall thinking "wow, that was fun," rather than "wow, I liked that music," regardless of whether or not he/she actually enjoyed the music.

[Josquin des Prez]

My experience is that the majority of people are too stupid to listen to classical music, and the exceptions are usually easy to spot.

[karlhenning]

My experience is that the majority of people are too stupid to listen to classical music

My experience is that this description of the situation is roughly equal parts arrogant, prejudicial, and stupid.

[Dana]

Zing!

[(poco) Sforzando]

My experience is that the majority of people are too stupid to listen to classical music, and the exceptions are usually easy to spot.

Speak for yourself.

[Novi]

(1) Wozzeck is only 90 minutes long; therefore at worst it will be 1+ hours of tedium.
(2) No one should try to read a libretto during a live performance. The libretto or a plot synopsis can be read beforehand.
(3) By all means take your friend. Let him make up his own mind. As erato says, you never know.

Teehee, I was estimating the length by trying to remember how many discs there were.

Yes, that makes sense about the libretto, but I still usually glance at the surtitles from time to time though. Thanks.

My experience is that you NEVER know what will turn another person into, or away from, classical music. A good friend of mine who started in earnest 5-6 years ago, sucks up romances, chamber music, solo piano and early music, but absolutely detests all orchestral music, particularly romantic music (he likes Haydn symphonies!), and any kind of concerto.

Yes, that's very true - it's very hard to gauge people's tastes. I find that with buying books as gifts as well. 

      Absolutely take your friend, that's spot on! So many people try to convert people to classical music by handing them a disc and calling it a done deal. Music is a performance based art, and the performance needs to be experienced, not relayed through a computer reproduction. In my experience, many times the energy of performance is much more important than the music itself. In other words, your friend is more likely to walk out of the concert hall thinking "wow, that was fun," rather than "wow, I liked that music," regardless of whether or not he/she actually enjoyed the music.

Hello Dana - I'm not actually on a proselytising mission or anything like that. But what you say about 'wow, that was fun' as an occasion is about right. It's something I want to see myself; my friend will also be around, so my idea is that we should go and make a good day out of it. As a matter of fact, he's had to reshuffle some travel plans to make it, which was why I suddenly thought, oh-oh, what if he hates it.

Thanks for your opinions everyone - I think I'll go and order the tickets and to hell with it. It'll give us something to talk about over dinner at the very least.

[Josquin des Prez]

My experience is that this description of the situation is roughly equal parts arrogant, prejudicial, and stupid.

Its supposed to be antagonizing. Its purpose is to make people go "waaat? i'll show you who's stupid here", and by extension, elevate their intellectual performance. Alas, it rarely works, because the average individual is in fact relatively stupid.

[karlhenning]

Thanks for your opinions everyone - I think I'll go and order the tickets and to hell with it. It'll give us something to talk about over dinner at the very least.

That's the spirit!

[Sergeant Rock]

Its supposed to be antagonizing. Its purpose is to make people go "waaat? i'll show you who's stupid here", and by extension, elevate their intellectual performance. Alas, it rarely works, because the average individual is in fact relatively stupid.

The average individual is actually right in the middle of the intelligence scale.  The vast majority of people are either a little above or a little below average intelligence. Do the math  

My experience has been that intelligence, whether high or low, has absolutely no bearing on what kind of music a person appreciates. The most intelligent individuals I know have no interest in classical music. On the other hand, my brother-in-law, who has a learning disability, loves it.

Sarge

[MN Dave]

Yeah, and I like it too!

Oh, wait...

[karlhenning]

My experience has been that intelligence, whether high or low, has absolutely no bearing on what kind of music a person appreciates.

QFT

Of course, there's the occasional wanker who wants to feel he's more intelligent, or more sensitive, because he listens to classical music . . . .

Yeah, and I like it too!

Oh, wait...

Don't worry, didn't mean you 

[Franco]

Its supposed to be antagonizing. Its purpose is to make people go "waaat? i'll show you who's stupid here", and by extension, elevate their intellectual performance. Alas, it rarely works, because the average individual is in fact relatively stupid.

Just a intelligence has no bearing on a person's moral compass or ability to be a good person, intelligence is not a determinant if a person will enjoy art, or if so, the specific kind of art they prefer.

I actually think intelligence is overrated, and value other aspects of a person more, e.g. their capacity for empathy and compassion and, in general, the ability to treat other people well.

[ChamberNut]

Its supposed to be antagonizing. Its purpose is to make people go "waaat? i'll show you who's stupid here", and by extension, elevate their intellectual performance. Alas, it rarely works, because the average individual is in fact relatively stupid.

If you're the poster child for "intelligence", I'd rather be a dumbass.

[MN Dave]

Just a intelligence has no bearing on a person's moral compass or ability to be a good person, intelligence is not a determinant if a person will enjoy art, or if so, the specific kind of art they prefer.

I actually think intelligence is overrated, and value other aspects of a person more, e.g. their capacity for empathy and compassion and, in general, the ability to treat other people well.

I like this Franco guy. 

[bhodges]

Have you ever introduced newbies to classical music? How did you gear it towards their tastes?

Would you take someone who's relatively new to classical music to a performance of Wozzeck? I was quite keen to take a friend to this (it would be his first opera), but am now having second thoughts. My feeling is that he'll like the hardcore, primordial, punch-in-the-gut nature of the work, but I think I might be basing that on my own first response to the music. I know these things are hard to pick, but if he doesn't like it, it will be 2+ hours of tedium. Another consideration is that the surtitles won't be in English and I'm not sure whether there'll be enough light to read an English libretto in the theatre.

What do you think?

I agree with all those who said "take your friend" and I see no reason Wozzeck couldn't be a huge hit with him.  As another example, I would mention a friend on this board whose entry point into classical music was through Berg, Webern and Schoenberg.

But back to your opening sentence, and yes, I introduce people to classical music all the time, and enjoy doing so a lot.  I do try to gauge what would turn them on, e.g., no point in taking someone who loves vocal music to a piano recital, or wasting a huge orchestral piece on someone who responds more to chamber music.  (It's interesting to me how the size of the ensemble, or number of performers often enter into these decisions.)

So, full speed ahead.  Wishing you much success on this trial run, with much to discuss after.

--Bruce

[DavidW]

If I were in Novi's friend's shoes I'd do it just to get out of the house.  Even if you end up bored, it's still a more memorable boredom as compared to staying at home watching tv.

[karlhenning]

I like this Franco guy. 

Most agreeable chap.