Havergal Brian.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Voilà! In Brisbane...

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

@Philip I'm not an Apple user, and I don't have the Pro version of QuickTime... Upload speed is very bad at the moment. I'm going to see if I can convert the files to another, smaller-sized format like .avi or .mp4 first. And then we'll see.

[5against4]

Voilà! In Brisbane...
Two double bassoons in tandem.jpg

In tandem? Shouldn't they be sitting one behind the other then? 

[Philip Legge]

5:4, the Melbourne Symphony invested in a contraforte a few years ago – I first heard it being outed in place of the "gran fagotto" in Mozart's Maurerische Trauermusik (K 479/477ª) which has three basset horns besides a normal Bb clarinet and the contra! It makes a lovely full tone without the offensive, reedy "fartiness" that you so often get with the contrabassoon in place of tone. Now there's a Mozart piece which is clearly in advance of its time.

Over to Malcolm MacDonald on that bit of the Vivace; behold the thing itself:

At this point the distant horn fanfare returns. Though not unaltered from its first appearance (it is stated over a pedal D from bassoons, cellos, horns and basses, and punctuated by chiming harps and glockenspiel), it is the nearest thing to a literal repetition we have yet encountered, and is plainly a structural landmark. In fact, it signals the mid-point of the movement; and here, at the geographical centre, we find an extraordinary thing. There are two statements of the horn fanfare, and between them lies an enormously impressive structure. For a mere dozen bars, we hear a hypnotic motion of massive chords on 6 horns and bassoons, circling away from and back to D, over a repeated even-crotchet pattern in tubas, double-bassoon, cellos and basses that curves downwards from A to D and back again. Words cannot give the flavour of the thing: it is like the majestic rotation of a planet. It has a looming, elemental quality – as if a veil has been lifted to allow us a brief glimpse of the mighty engine, that 'larger momentum' that powers the movement and the symphony as a whole. Brian marks the passage 'Slow', but so inexorable is its progression that the adjective seems meaningless. Does the world turn 'slowly' on its axis? Does it orbit 'slowly' round the Sun? Again and again in Brian's music we shall find similar moments of revelation, of forces at work beneath the music's surface.

I dare say Colin will be the first to agree that Malcolm has a brilliant turn of phrase when he's on form – and he so often is.

Johan, for some reason I thought the QuickTime player on the Windows platform did have some of the export features that are there on the Mac; apologies!

[John Whitmore]

Johan, I recommend opening the movies in QuickTime and using the Export... option under the File menu – do a bit of experimentation with the various options for exporting different format movies and seeing how small the files can be made while preserving quality. 2 GB strongly suggests almost no compression whatever.

Johnwh51, yep! Contrabassoon doubled by tuba and double basses at the unison, with the other tuba and the cellos at the higher octave.

I wouldn't write off Curro's Part One : remember, the internet stream from 4MBS is arguably inferior to the low-quality Radio 3 stream that was available – and having listened to your high-definition MP3s of excellent quality, they do not possess the limitations of the low-quality stream – the tuning of the high-pitched clarinets, cornets and trumpets is much less shrill, and tonally they actually sound like they are supposed to.

I wouldn't write the Curro off either. It's very good good but even had it been in high quality sound I still think that Brabbins would have the edge. Actually, I never write off any performance, good bad or indifferent, because at the end of the day it's just a load of people having a go and that's far more important than criticising their efforts. When I read some of the rubbish on YouTube it really makes me annoyed. You know the sort of thing: Heifetz is OK but at bar 16 blah, blah, blah. The LSO brass section at 3'25'' isn't as secure as blah, blah, blah.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

5:4, the Melbourne Symphony invested in a contraforte a few years ago – I first heard it being outed in place of the "gran fagotto" in Mozart's Maurerische Trauermusik (K 479/477ª) which has three basset horns besides a normal Bb clarinet and the contra! It makes a lovely full tone without the offensive, reedy "fartiness" that you so often get with the contrabassoon in place of tone. Now there's a Mozart piece which is clearly in advance of its time.

I would have thought, with Mozart's scatological tendencies, he would object to an unfarty instrument...

Johan, for some reason I thought the QuickTime player on the Windows platform did have some of the export features that are there on the Mac; apologies!

Apple punishes Windows users subtly, Philip...

[Philip Legge]

Johan,

of course, there's a time and a place! I think Mozart might well have plumped for the contraforte on musical grounds alone, simply because it achieves a much better blend with the family of basset horns and clarinet, and can stand proudly against the oboes and horns which were also pitched against the gran fagotto.

Johnwh51,

I know the sort of thing – it's why I almost never read the comments on YouTube videos unless they are from an identifiable human being whose opinions can be respected. It's all too easy to be an anonymous troll on the Internet.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I suddenly remembered - I have an account at vimeo.com, where you upload videos... I have never used it. Now could be the time. I am now converting the first film (around 3 minutes) to the .avi format. On it you can see and hear the end of the 'jaunty march' episode and a great chunk of the bass solo...


Later: I have changed my mind. I'll convert the file to mp4 and upload to YouTube. And I'll do it at my ex's place, who has a secure connection.


P.S. I found a wonderful shareware programme, called RADVideo. I think I'll donate something, if all goes according to plan!

[John Whitmore]

Philip,
Do you have any dealings with the Western Australia Symphony Orchestra? One of my old school friends, Graham Pyatt, is a 1st fiddle player with them. Graham also played the solos on the 1974 CBS/Brian LP.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I have converted the .avi file to an .mp4. I just got a 'Brian' wave - I am going to use my mobile phone for uploading. See if that works. The first file has now been reduced to almost a third of its size.


Later: phone doesn't comply (Vodafone will have caps on file sizes). So I'll get my bike and go to my ex later. Expect the footage in two hours' time. I think it will be among the first in cyberspace. Because I found this...



http://www.youtube.com/v/ZXQH0mjN-0w


Of course the sound is distorted. But it still gives you an idea.

[Guido]

Guido 1637: In 1589 you said: "I just can't understand how any serious listener couldn't be riveted by this music. Such extraordinary beauty, and striding elemental grandeur - as Brian said, you just cant help but be happy that this music even exists." I myself feel neither riveted by this work nor particularly happy at its existence; consequently in your eyes, I am evidently not a serious listener. If it helps, I did feel happy this morning listening to the soprano/tenor duet from Bach's Cantata #112.

Ok whatever. You didn't engage with any of my points in the later post. And in the post you are referring to above: note the wording - I said "I can't understand", not "anyone who isn't riveted is an idiot". You're attacking strawmen here and as far as I can see, no one on this thread that you are making accusations at is anything like the screaming lunatics that you seem to think we are! It's not that anyone who doesn't like it is wrong, it's that snap judgements on this work, based on one hearing, need to be questioned. Other than that people are just venturing their opinion of how much they loved the concert, how much they love this music, and the incredible experience they have  had when listening to this work. I don't think anyone's made outrageous claims for him, and most claims have been rather moderate (apart from peoples own personal experiences which have tended to be ecstatic) - just hopeful that he will be revaluated and reconsidered. I've personally found the accounts rather uplifting and moving.

There's probably little point in typing any of this I know. You're not stupid and you know what you're doing!   

[cilgwyn]

No outrageous claims for him (Brian)? Don't I keep banging on here that Brian is one of the greatest composers of all time,up there with Beethoven,Mozart,Berlioz,Handel and Johann Sebastian Bach?
Ludwig van Beethoven is a piffling upstart by comparison!
Best not take the bait!!! And,fair play to Sforzando,yes,he DOES know what he's doing.
Those videos are great. I must burn some dvd's.
(I hope that's the right term).

[cilgwyn]

More posts about .av files (?) and video uploads,quickly,PLEASE!

[vandermolen]

I have converted the .avi file to an .mp4. I just got a 'Brian' wave - I am going to use my mobile phone for uploading. See if that works. The first file has now been reduced to almost a third of its size.


Later: phone doesn't comply (Vodafone will have caps on file sizes). So I'll get my bike and go to my ex later. Expect the footage in two hours' time. I think it will be among the first in cyberspace. Because I found this...



http://www.youtube.com/v/ZXQH0mjN-0w


Of course the sound is distorted. But it still gives you an idea.

Terrific sequence Johan - thanks for the link.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The show goes on... (I'll put my footage here shortly)


http://www.youtube.com/v/o-TFAKKJUco

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Footage of the Proms Gothic, not the rehearsal, but the final concert, courtesy of my sister and her trusty Canon... Another fragment tomorrow. As I can't seem to embed this one, I'll do it like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ugAH0R7S_w

[John Whitmore]

I like what Brabbins said in part 2/8 about his anticipatory comment. Although we didn't hear this, he obviously warned the chorus about their entry dragging behind the beat (which is usually the case) and lo and behold, they rushed ahead instead. Classic. This entire rehearsal day would be more interesting to see on DVD rather than the actual concert but there again, I have always enjoyed rehearsals more than the finished product.

[zamyrabyrd]

I absolutely recognise your dislike of Messiaen's St Francis, btw. I sat through the work when it was performed in Amsterdam last year - the first and final half hours or so alone were enjoyable, but everything in between was sleep-inducingly thin and completely undramatic. Thus runs my verdict.

Oh gosh, I just saw a film of (what may be) the same performance. Maybe it is easier to take the five hours outside a theatre. I loved the music though. Perhaps a shortened version might be considered for the opera house. But as Mozart asked Franz Joseph in "Amadeus", the question would be "what notes shall I cut?"

ZB

[Hattoff]

Thankyou cilgwyn for your penultimate post. There is a way forward after all.

[Luke]

Couple of reviews

http://www.musicomh.com/classical/proms/2011-4_0711.htm

which is buttressed with some nice passages:

It is an incredible work that I suspect requires many hearings to make any real sense of from a strict musical perspective. Fortunately, however, just one is all that is needed to become fully aware of its magnitude, impact and sheer brilliance....

...Brian's 'Gothic' Symphony is undoubtedly crazy, and just as certainly a work of total genius. Though the evening revealed exactly how glorious it is, I fear that performances will remain few and far between. For that reason, you are strongly advised to catch a repeat broadcast of this one while you can, and I certainly hope that we will be treated to some of Brian's other thirty plus symphonies over the next few seasons.

and equally positive
http://petergroves.blogspot.com/2011/07/gothic-symphony.html

though this one is not immune to misconception - e.g. this bit:

It had been performed a couple of times by the time I learnt of its existence - so the composer did get to hear it before he died at the ripe old age of 96. There have been a couple of performances of the first, orchestral, part since, which overcame the problem of finding 700 or so singers to make up the three choruses needed, and I think you could also get away without the four off-stage brass bands, so all you need is an orchestra of just short of 200 people.