Havergal Brian.

[cilgwyn]

Brian's manacing qualities are right up my stroot!

[Dundonnell]

I have just tried unsuccessfully to download the Schwarz recording of the Eighth Symphony from the HB website.

Is there a problem with the file?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Strange.


It's Martyn's birthday, so I don't think he will be here anytime soon (though I could be mistaken). Shall I upload it for you?

[Dundonnell]

Strange.


It's Martyn's birthday, so I don't think he will be here anytime soon (though I could be mistaken). Shall I upload it for you?

That would be most helpful

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Voilà, Colin!


http://www.mediafire.com/?ua1drkqa6x0awbg

[Dundonnell]

Many thanks

[John Whitmore]

Voilà, Colin!


http://www.mediafire.com/?ua1drkqa6x0awbg

It's in the right key so that's a start.............

[hbswebmaster]

Seems to be a site problem rather than the file. I'll get onto the host.

Cheers.

[John Whitmore]

Seems to be a site problem rather than the file. I'll get onto the host.

Cheers.

1) Happy birthday
2) Where's the HB 10 FLAC

[Dundonnell]

Seems to be a site problem rather than the file. I'll get onto the host.

Cheers.

The Newstone 12th downloaded ok

[cilgwyn]

Getting ready to listen to this Pope tenth,tonight!
After some more Gilbert & Sullivan!!!
(I'm on the hard stuff,now! )

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Pope may take it slowly, but it's still an impressive performance. Remember I was so moved by the espressivo passage just preceding the 'sphinx-like' chord? The tempo there must be the same as the opening - if Pope had taken the opening quicker, the whole effect of the espressivo would have been ruined...

[John Whitmore]

Pope may take it slowly, but it's still an impressive performance. Remember I was so moved by the espressivo passage just preceding the 'sphinx-like' chord? The tempo there must be the same as the opening - if Pope had taken the opening quicker, the whole effect of the espressivo would have been ruined...

That's not really an excuse for such a slow, earth bound and tentative opening though is it?  The start of this symphony should be a call to action. A brilliant opening that immediately grabs you by the scruff of the neck and makes you pay attention.  Pope does the opposite. The dynamism of the phrase just falls apart. It barely hangs together at all (In the same way that Bernstein destroyed Enigma when the BBC SO fell out with him big time some years ago). Pope drives me to reach out for the Horlicks jar

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Since writing that, I have been thinking about the whole issue some more. So I agree with you, John. The opening should be electrifying. Brian's marking is 'Adagio, crotchet = 60'. There seems to be a clash there - on the one hand you want to bring out the demisemiquavers, on the other hand you want the music to have momentum. The LSSO does it best, I think. As for the espressivo - now that I have heard Pope, I don't want it any different anymore, even if it makes the passage inconsistent with the opening tempo.


This article today is very apposite:


http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/shaping-the-invisible/a-composers-conduct

[Dundonnell]

Since writing that, I have been thinking about the whole issue some more. So I agree with you, John. The opening should be electrifying. Brian's marking is 'Adagio, crotchet = 60'. There seems to be a clash there - on the one hand you want to bring out the demisemiquavers, on the other hand you want the music to have momentum. The LSSO does it best, I think. As for the espressivo - now that I have heard Pope, I don't want it any different anymore, even if it makes the passage inconsistent with the opening tempo.


This article today is very apposite:


http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/shaping-the-invisible/a-composers-conduct

The article you linked is very relevant to the mention of tempi in relation to the Malcolm Arnold symphonies recently. When he came to conduct his Seventh Symphony for the BBC Arnold slowed the symphony right down from his original tempo markings. This exasperated the reviewers (the performance is not on cd) but are Arnold's second thoughts valid or not

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The article you linked is very relevant to the mention of tempi in relation to the Malcolm Arnold symphonies recently. When he came to conduct his Seventh Symphony for the BBC Arnold slowed the symphony right down from his original tempo markings. This exasperated the reviewers (the performance is not on cd) but are Arnold's second thoughts valid or not

If they clearly ruin the music, ignore the composer. 

[John Whitmore]

Since writing that, I have been thinking about the whole issue some more. So I agree with you, John. The opening should be electrifying. Brian's marking is 'Adagio, crotchet = 60'. There seems to be a clash there - on the one hand you want to bring out the demisemiquavers, on the other hand you want the music to have momentum. The LSSO does it best, I think. As for the espressivo - now that I have heard Pope, I don't want it any different anymore, even if it makes the passage inconsistent with the opening tempo.

My faith in your hearing and judgement are both restored.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Quote from: John Whitmore on Today at 21:58:18

My faith in your hearing and judgement are both restored.



Phew! 

[Dundonnell]

If they clearly ruin the music, ignore the composer. 

That is an astonishingly controversial statement, Johan

Surely if Malcolm Arnold, or any other composer. with the ability to conduct (in the sense of being able to communicate his intentions to the orchestra and get them to follow his instructions) choses to render his composition as he wishes it to sound then that is the composition. It may represent a considerable revision of the score in that the original tempo markings have been amended or even ignored but can one then say that the music has been 'ruined' Surely it is now perhaps a different piece, even perhaps, in one's judgment, an inferior piece but has the original been 'ruined'

Hmmm....I don't know, I wonder....or is this just semantics

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Quote from: Dundonnell on Today at 22:42:18

That is an astonishingly controversial statement, Johan



I seem to remember that Malcolm Arnold's later years were marred by a drink problem (?) If he wasn't in complete possession of his faculties when he made the decision to change the tempo, I think a conductor would be right to defend the composer against himself... I wish we could hear both versions!