Havergal Brian.

[cilgwyn]

In 1965 Brian wrote two symphonies, 23 and 24 (remember those?) In No. 23 you can see him wrestling, violently, with Emma Peel's appeal. At the end of No. 24, you can see the old man finally succumbing. 

Actually,it might have been Cathy Gale (Honor Blackman),Emma Riggs predecessor,who 'turned his tv on'? She famously knocked out the wrestler Jackie Pallo in one episode. Who knows,maybe Brian found her a bit of a knock out too?!

On second thoughts,I'd have been'watching' Verdi's Othello,too!

Interesting theory about those Brian symphonies,Johan. Less cerebral than Klaatu's,but equally plausible!! It could also be a means of making late Brian accessible to a wider audience that would not otherwise appreciate this music. The martial bits could be a Klingon attack,the quiet reflective,lyrical moments,life on board the Starship Enterprise?

Update: Not being a Star Trek fan it's going to have to be Mordor and the Hobbits!

Now,where's my batphone?

[calyptorhynchus]

Interesting discussion, I'd never picked Brian for anything other than an agnostic, and not an Anglican agnostic like Vaughan Williams (ie agnostic, but still writing church-music).

I think he was more interested in Greek notions like moira (destiny/fate), and nemesis, from his readings of the Greek tragedians and historians.

If he was watching TV in 1960, he got it very early.

"No; television glorifies nobodies." Absolutely priceless Brian, in four words he pretty describes the last 70 years of popular and political culture.

[cilgwyn]

The story about his wife is particularly amusing. What I'd like to know is,did she like symphonies,or,actually, enjoy classical music for that matter? As i observed earlier,my father never did share my late mothers love of music. Not that he's ever  hates it,he just never felt interested enough to collect it,or seek it out. Reading,classic movies & art are his passion,in life. So,marriage doesn't mean you have to share the same interests. Of course,in Brian's case he was a prolific composer!

Brian's observation that,"television glorifies nobodies",is even more pertinent now than it was then,in this age of Big Brother,I'm a Celebrity,Britains Got Talent, and endless reality shows.

I was hoping to listen to the symphonies immeadiately preceding and following No's 22-24 tonight (yesterday!) but sadly a migraine intervened. (Wrong glasses possibly? They both look the b**** same!)

By the way,I'm with you on the late symphonies,calyptorhyncus.

John,you must obtain this new Naxos cd. I wasn't going to buy it,but it's more or less converted me,to the post No20 symphonies!
If they played Khatchaturian or Bruckner like this lot play Brian,you'd be a lifelong fan!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

"If they played Khatchaturian or Bruckner like this lot play Brian,you'd be a lifelong fan!"


When he wakes up later this morning, expect some withering sarcasm.


I listened to the Newstone 7th - wonderful work. Brian takes his time and still is his unpredictable self. I must say that the Naxos CD has really rekindled my love for Brian (not that the fire ever went out, of course!)

[John Whitmore]

"If they played Khatchaturian or Bruckner like this lot play Brian,you'd be a lifelong fan!"


When he wakes up later this morning, expect some withering sarcasm.

I listened to the Newstone 7th - wonderful work. Brian takes his time and still is his unpredictable self. I must say that the Naxos CD has really rekindled my love for Brian (not that the fire ever went out, of course!)

I'm just far too busy for withering sarcasm. I'm currently engrossed in Khach's magnificent 3rd Symphony. It's up there with Nielsen 5 and Simpson 9.

[cilgwyn]

Unfortunately,I appear to have given Khach's 3rd,to the YMCA!!

Going through some of the symphonies,immeadiately,on either side of the new Naxos cd. I see that Dundonnell,at the AMF,rates No26 as Brian's weakest. Is this true? I'll be listening to it,soon!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Malcolm MacDonald is critical of 25 and 26, both of them. I can understand that. No. 25 is forceful, but a bit dry, and No. 26 has a bit of a 'going through the motions' feeling. BUT - as I am impressed by Symphony No. 23 on the new Naxos CD, a work which MM also doesn't rate very highly, I think I shall revisit No. 26...

[cilgwyn]

And he didn't care much for No 13 (and 14,I think?),but I gather he may have revised his opinion,a little? (I'll have to look through the posts here,and at the AMF,again).As you know,No13 is a personal favourite of mine.
I'm going to have another listen to No 31 on emi,as well. I know I like that one!

[cilgwyn]

By the way;I suppose this question has,undoubtedly,been asked before;but is there any current interest in the HB Society in getting Malcolm MacDonald's books about the symphonies republished? If so,is there any prospect of this occurring? I noticed that the Boughton trust "by agreement with the estate of Michael Hurd" are planning  to have Michael Hurd's book,'Rutland Boughton and the Glastonbury Festivals',reissued in the "forseeable" future!
'Forseeable is a bit 'iffy',but it does mean that something is being tackled!
Any hope for Malcolm MacDonald's trilogy?!!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

MMls trilogy is still available for members through the HBS, which bought up the last stock. It'll set you back, iirc, around 25 pounds...

[vandermolen]

I'm delighted to see symphony No 22 back in the catalogue. An epic work despite its brevity (no pun intended) - I last heard it on my old CBS Hull Youth SO LP. Johan - can you remind me which number English Suite was on the same LP please (+ a Psalm I think). I really liked that LP from the same forces which brought us Bantock's 'Hebridean Symphony'.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Hi, Jeffrey! The CBS LP was made by the Leicestershire Schools Symphony Orchestra (which also made the immortal Symphonies 10 + 21 recording). It contained Symphony No. 22, Psalm 23 and English Suite No. 5. The Hull Youth Orchestra recorded Brian's early orchestral works and the Bantock you mention. By the way, the LSSO LPs will be reissued on a twofer by Heritage...

[vandermolen]

Hi, Jeffrey! The CBS LP was made by the Leicestershire Schools Symphony Orchestra (which also made the immortal Symphonies 10 + 21 recording). It contained Symphony No. 22, Psalm 23 and English Suite No. 5. The Hull Youth Orchestra recorded Brian's early orchestral works and the Bantock you mention. By the way, the LSSO LPs will be reissued on a twofer by Heritage...

Hi Johan  Yes, I totally mixed that up! Still it could have been worse as I might have suggested that the HB was performed by the City of Hull Youth Jazz Band! ( An excellent ensemble whom I have heard live). The Bantock is now on CD too I see (Cameo Classics - they have also recently reissued a HB collection). Thanks Johan.

[John Whitmore]

I'm delighted to see symphony No 22 back in the catalogue. An epic work despite its brevity (no pun intended) - I last heard it on my old CBS Hull Youth SO LP. Johan - can you remind me which number English Suite was on the same LP please (+ a Psalm I think). I really liked that LP from the same forces which brought us Bantock's 'Hebridean Symphony'.

HOW VERY DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[John Whitmore]

I'm delighted to see symphony No 22 back in the catalogue. An epic work despite its brevity (no pun intended) - I last heard it on my old CBS Hull Youth SO LP. Johan - can you remind me which number English Suite was on the same LP please (+ a Psalm I think). I really liked that LP from the same forces which brought us Bantock's 'Hebridean Symphony'.

By the way, even though Heritage plans to reissue this LSSO CBS LP from 1974 (Symph 22, Suite 5 "Rustic Scenes", Psalm 23) in a few months, there is a good refurb at Klassic Haus which sounds vastly superior to the old LP. The download costs peanuts and will certainly tide you over:
http://www.klassichaus.us/Brian%3A-Symphony-No--22-Psalm-23-English-Suite-No--5---LSSO.php

[John Whitmore]

What an expensive day. I finally got around to ordering the new Naxos Symphony 22 CD plus another couple of odds and ends. When I was about to place the order I came across "Mercury Living Presence Collector's Edition Vol 2". 55 CDs for 87 quid. Having already shelled out 75 quid on Vol 1 last year (51 CDs) my resistance collapsed. I had to have it. These Mercurys, along with the Everest catalogue (which I also have), are some of the most remarkable technical achievements in the history of recorded sound. Artistically good too. Digital recording? No thanks. Three mic/analogues on 35mm tape yield a truly musical balance and gripping sound quality with a manageable dynamic range in the domestic setting. Has sound recording really advanced significantly since the late 1950s? I'm not so sure it has. I have some listening to do next week 

[Christo]

HOW VERY DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cilgwyn]

I just spotted the review of the new Naxos HB cd on musicweb (just in case anyone else hasn't?).
Must go right back & read it now!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Ta very much!


http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/May13/Brian_22_8572833.htm


I like it!


No. 22 being the most memorable since No. 6... The Symphonia Brevis is a strong piece, undoubtedly, but I do think there are symphonies inbetween that are just as strong - 8, 10, 12, 16...

[cilgwyn]

Thanks for providing the handy link,Johan!
Setting aside the 'Gothic' as a special case,Rob Barnett rates No 22 as the most memorable after No 6! What do you think?
By the way,is this is review a 'rushed' job,or draft? Lots of odd dead ends & question marks?!
Oh,well!