Havergal Brian.

[krummholz]

I didn't need that opinion on Cooke. I want to form my own, thanks.

This forum is all about sharing opinions... I was only sharing mine, wasn't trying to influence you.

[calyptorhynchus]

BTW I was MUCH less impressed with Cooke's 3rd and I think I've only listened to it once. Compared with Brian's much more complex and adventurous style, the Cooke struck me as very formal and elementary.

I think Cooke's symphonies are quite good. I like the way that they carry on in an unthreatening neo-classical sort of the way, and then suddenly there are these moments of emotion that the neo-classical idiom can't deal with at all :-)

However, putting the Cooke 3 alongside Brian 16 is a bit unfair 

[krummholz]

I think Cooke's symphonies are quite good. I like the way that they carry on in an unthreatening neo-classical sort of the way, and then suddenly there are these moments of emotion that the neo-classical idiom can't deal with at all :-)

However, putting the Cooke 3 alongside Brian 16 is a bit unfair 

Yes, that's what I was trying to say - not that Cooke's 3rd is bad music, but that coupling it with something like Brian's 16th was IMO a poor decision. I'll have to give the Cooke another listen soon - but NOT after listening to any of Brian's more impressive symphonies - much less the 16th, which I consider one of his very best.

[lunar22]

I must say, I'm amazed that a thread on a composer who few non-specialists know can run to 415 pages!!! There's clearly a sizeable fan club here on GMG. When I was at university, there was in fact a Harvegal Brian society run by a friend of mine, though it was more about neglected tonal British composers in general than HB specifically. In fact this friend was particularly a fan of Rubbra who I investigated at the time and I seem to remember his 7th symphony at least made some impression. I've tried a few of HB's symphonies but so far, they've only made an intermittent impression. I think Robert Simpson is more to my taste -- to say nothing of Arnold who is by far my favourite British symphonist.  Of the current generation, I find Steve Elcock probably the best, influenced as he is very strongly by Allan Pettersson.

[Roasted Swan]

I must say, I'm amazed that a thread on a composer who few non-specialists know can run to 415 pages!!! There's clearly a sizeable fan club here on GMG. When I was at university, there was in fact a Harvegal Brian society run by a friend of mine, though it was more about neglected tonal British composers in general than HB specifically. In fact this friend was particularly a fan of Rubbra who I investigated at the time and I seem to remember his 7th symphony at least made some impression. I've tried a few of HB's symphonies but so far, they've only made an intermittent impression. I think Robert Simpson is more to my taste -- to say nothing of Arnold who is by far my favourite British symphonist.  Of the current generation, I find Steve Elcock probably the best, influenced as he is very strongly by Allan Pettersson.

One of the Crown Jewels of this forum is the frankly absurd fact that Havergal Brian has 415 pages worth of posts!  And I write that as someone who enjoys his music a lot.

[Maestro267]

Well the hope is that more non-specialists open their ears to hear music from off the beaten path. It also happens that the period of this thread coincides with a period in history where Havergal Brian has gained far more prominence than he ever had during his lifetime. Multiple Gothic performances (and recordings) along with the completion of recording the rest of his symphonies along with plenty of other works.

[krummholz]

Well the hope is that more non-specialists open their ears to hear music from off the beaten path. It also happens that the period of this thread coincides with a period in history where Havergal Brian has gained far more prominence than he ever had during his lifetime. Multiple Gothic performances (and recordings) along with the completion of recording the rest of his symphonies along with plenty of other works.

Indeed. @lunar22, if you ever decide you'd like to explore Brian's oeuvre further, the works I'd recommend would be his 8th, 16th, 27th, and 30th symphonies. All are relatively short and show late Brian in top form. The musical narrative never proceeds in a straight line (think Bruckner!) but the effect is cumulative, and especially in #16 and #30, it never fails to impress me.

(The 8th is similarly impressive, but so well-integrated that it will probably never strike you as episodic or wayward, even on first hearing. The 27th is an unusually linear work for late Brian, but definitely rewards repeated listenings.)

For lighter (or at least less heaven-storming) fare, try the 11th or the 21st.

[Maestro267]

I will also say, +1 on the Simpson, Arnold and Elcock "upvotes"

Giving No. 16 a second listen as I write. The effect that stuck in my head from the first listen came near the end, with that drum roll and harp glissando. Whole thing is epic, showcasing the full power of the larger-than-normal orchestra he deploys here (Quadruple winds, 6 horns, euphonium, 10 percussionists)

[lunar22]

if you ever decide you'd like to explore Brian's oeuvre further, the works I'd recommend would be his 8th, 16th, 27th, and 30th symphonies

I will come back to Brian at some point and will bear in mind these particular recommendations as a good starting point. I did listen to the 8th in fact quite recently as it came up in a discussion as one of your influences if I remember correctly.

[calyptorhynchus]

I just found out that James Loughran died earlier this year at the age of 92, having been suffering from dementia.

He made the first commercial recording of Brain (S10 with the Leicestershire Schools Philharmonic) in the early 70s.

And many other great recordings.

RIP

[Irons]

I just found out that James Loughran died earlier this year at the age of 92, having been suffering from dementia.

He made the first commercial recording of Brain (S10 with the Leicestershire Schools Philharmonic) in the early 70s.

And many other great recordings.

RIP

He came over as a likable person. Made many excellent recordings of mainstream repertoire for budget labels during the vinyl era.

[Christo]

Yes, that's what I was trying to say - not that Cooke's 3rd is bad music, but that coupling it with something like Brian's 16th was IMO a poor decision. I'll have to give the Cooke another listen soon - but NOT after listening to any of Brian's more impressive symphonies - much less the 16th, which I consider one of his very best.

Happen to be of a different opinion. Though I love both Brian symphonies dearly since I was 18, Cooke's Third -- very different, totally 'Neoclassicist' compared to the 'brazen very late Romanticism' of Brian -- is equally beautiful in my ears.

One could maintain that the coupling -- most Brianites will hardly pay any attention to Arnold Cooke, I woudl guess -- is not a very good idea.

[Maestro267]

Its value lies in the fact I probably would not have come across Cooke had it not been on that disc, paired with the Brian symphonies. Come for the Brian, stay for the Cooke, if you will.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

If all goes well we'll get a new biography of Brian in 2026, 150 years after his birth. I wonder what new things we are going to learn about this enigmatic man. Ever since discovering his music in 1977, age 16, it continues to enthrall, thrill and move me. Amazing composer!

[calyptorhynchus]

If all goes well we'll get a new biography of Brian in 2026, 150 years after his birth. I wonder what new things we are going to learn about this enigmatic man. Ever since discovering his music in 1977, age 16, it continues to enthrall, thrill and move me. Amazing composer!

Who's writing it?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Who's writing it?

I read it in a recent Newsletter. It's a member of the HBS. I'll ask around.

[Albion]

Is there any news regarding Martyn Brabbins' recording of "Agamemnon" with ENO forces for Hyperion, especially a release date? The only reference I can find online is from one of the female singers involved and her comment about the recording sessions is dated 2023, so it must be in the offing I hope...

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Tim Watts (Cambridge University) is Brian's new biographer. How far he has progressed John Pickard, symphonist and Brianite, couldn't tell me...

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Is there any news regarding Martyn Brabbins' recording of "Agamemnon" with ENO forces for Hyperion, especially a release date? The only reference I can find online is from one of the female singers involved and her comment about the recording sessions is dated 2023, so it must be in the offing I hope...

From the April-June issue of the HBS Newsletter:

"With Agamemnon and symphonies 6 & 12 now in the process of preparation for release, the committee is preparing for a release on CD of further historic performances on the Heritage label of Brian symphonies taken from original BBC masters. This will be the first of the final three Heritage releases supported by the HBS, one per year until 2026 with the final issue celebrating the 150th anniversary of Brian's birth. Under preparation are the last four symphonies, numbers 29, 30, 31 and 32 in excellent performances conducted by Myer Fredman, Sir Charles Mackerras and Lionel Friend, with the Philharmonia and BBC Symphony orchestras from 1978 and 1989."

That Heritage release will come in late January.

[Augustus]

The new disc is now on the Heritage website: https://www.heritage-records.com/shop/orchestral/heritage-orchestral/havergal-brian-symphonies-nos-29-30-31-32/