Havergal Brian.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Especially to a US composer!

[cilgwyn]

As I never dared to watch this horror movie, nor consciously heard the music accompanying it, it might help if you could clarify this suggestion a bit: does John Williams also make use of 16 horns, 12 trumpets, 11 trombones, 10 tubas, 6 sets of timpani, 6 sets of cymbals, 4 choirs and 2 triangles, or only the one bird scarer - or what? 

Sorry! It was referring to a critic,who compared the opening of the Gothic Symphony,after the Prom performance,to the Jaws theme. It was an "in-joke" that might have back fired a little here. Johan might remember? ("Help me!" ) There were a few posts about it at the time,I seem to remember. I thought it was quite funny,actually. It had never once crossed my mind that there was any similarity;but I can,sort of,see (hear) what he meant! Maybe there were some sharks in the audience?!

NB: I think it was The Economist?

https://bgreinhart.wordpress.com/2011/07/18/seeing-the-gothic/

http://www.economist.com/node/21524808

[cilgwyn]

From the Nikolay Miaskovsky thread:

Well, I've really enjoyed the symphonies I've listened to thus far.  But, I am taking my time going through the set, as these are very dark, and yes, disturbing works in some ways.  Even darker than Shostakovich.

Hmm, I'm tempted to explore the string quartets now, too! 

In a few of the symphonies I've heard thus far, I can almost hear a quasi Jaws theme!   

AND, I love that about 18 or 19 of the 27 symphonies are in minor keys!  (I'm just guessing the #, don't quote me on it). 

The symphonies I've 'first listened to so far are:

#1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 19 and 25.  Also, the Symphony-Suite in A minor, and the Slav Rhapsody in D minor.

Apparently,the Gothic isn't the only one?!!

[cilgwyn]

As I never dared to watch this horror movie, nor consciously heard the music accompanying it, it might help if you could clarify this suggestion a bit: does John Williams also make use of 16 horns, 12 trumpets, 11 trombones, 10 tubas, 6 sets of timpani, 6 sets of cymbals, 4 choirs and 2 triangles, or only the one bird scarer - or what? 

You were lucky of course. I was a school boy when Jaws came out,and had the misfortune to be sitting next to a 'friend' who was obsessed with the film (he even had the book!). My first encounter with Havergal Brian was still five years away!!!!

[Karl Henning]

You were lucky of course. I was a school boy when Jaws came out,and had the misfortune to be sitting next to a 'friend' who was obsessed with the film (he even had the book!). My first encounter with Havergal Brian was still five years away!!!!

Judging by the Reader's Digest version (all I could bear to turn the pages) the novel was dross.

[krummholz]

More so than the snapping minor second which opens the final movement of the New World Symphony?

To some ears perhaps. To these, it's almost a clear case of cribbing (Williams from Dvorak, of course).

[vandermolen]

To some ears perhaps. To these, it's almost a clear case of cribbing (Williams from Dvorak, of course).

OT
Also, see the similarity between the March from Prokofiev's 'Love of Three Oranges' Suite and the 'Parade of the Ewoks' (John Williams: Star Wars: 'Return of the Jedi').

[krummholz]

Posting about the Nordic feel of some of Daniel Jones' earlier symphonies,and some affinities shared by Brian and Jones (Daniel not Corporal! ) ie,the cragginess,alleviated by a certain lyricism and a flair for colourful orchestration;got me thinking again,about european influences in Brian's earlier symphonies. The main influences,apparent to my ears,are composers like Mahler and Bruckner. Even then,any influences are all pretty well assimilated,and subsumed,by Brian's very personal soundworld. Comparisons have been made,over the years,between the Gothic and Mahler (particularly,for obvious reasons,the eighth) but the only comparison really is in the size of the forces and scale of the two works. If I had to pick the most 'Mahlerian' Brian symphony,it would be No 2. The most 'Brucknerian' would be No 3.

Really ?! The 2nd sounds more to me like it might have been influenced by early Schoenberg than either Mahler or Bruckner, though my impression is more Bruckner than Mahler; and in the final funeral march, Wagner of course (including several actual quotations). And the 3rd has always sounded more redolent of Richard Strauss to me than any of those three. I'm not sure I could pick a Mahlerian Brian symphony, their styles are so different, despite Brian's love of counterpoint and funeral marches. Maybe the 11th? I don't think so, though it shows that Brian was certainly very aware of and fond of Mahler.

I would definitely add Schoenberg, early Schoenberg anyway, to the list of Brian's influences, particularly the Gurre-lieder.

[calyptorhynchus]

The new Naxos recording of the Symphonies 8, 21 and 16 is announced for release on 1 October.

https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.573752

The liner notes by John Pickard are very informative.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks for spotting that, calyptorhynchus!

Update: read the liner notes. Yes, very good.

[Maestro267]

Of course, when that disc is released, it means that the long process of making all 32 of Brian's symphonies available on disc will finally be complete! A significant moment in raising awareness of neglected music, surely.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Of course, when that disc is released, it means that the long process of making all 32 of Brian's symphonies available on disc will finally be complete! A significant moment in raising awareness of neglected music, surely.

Yes, a historic moment. That I would be 56 to see the day. It was 40 years ago that I discovered Malcolm McDonald's books about HB...

[cilgwyn]

And it's only taken 40 years! A few more quid in the fund and we might even live to hear his Faust opera?! I think this will be only the second Brian cd (or Lp) to have a mountainscape on the front. The Unicorn cd was the last one. I presume it reflects Brian's metaphorical scaling of the creative peaks? Or just a handy photo?! It looks cool,though! The eighth is often cited as one of his best. I've always had a fondness for the twenty first in the old LSSO recording. One of his most immediately approachable scores,amongst the later ones. I wonder if they can beat that classic recording? The LSSO still seems to reign supreme. Brabbins is good;but it's the LSSO recording I go to first! Newstone's Seventh is another example. Although,I find the Mackerras more satisfactory as a reading (of a Brian symphony) than Brabbins' tenth! But the LSSO were a school orchestra,of course! Conversely,if I want to listen to the Second,Brabbins is now my first port of call,not Mackerras (who is also very good). I also rather like Leslie Head,but I'm digressing a bit now!! Anyway,this is excellent news!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I agree with all of your preferences, cilgwyn.

[Maestro267]

The imminent availability of all 32 symphonies on disc makes the "marathon" do-able. The symphony cycle can be broken down into eight concert-length programmes. Once No. 10 is reached, the symphonies are quite short, so more of them can fit into the programmes. Here's my "schedule" for how I would listen to them:

Programme 1
No. 1

Programme 2
No. 2
*interval*
No. 3

Programme 3
No. 4
*interval*
Nos. 5 & 6

Programme 4
No. 7
*interval*
Nos. 8 & 9

Programme 5
Nos. 10-12
*interval*
Nos. 13-15

Programme 6
Nos. 16-18
*interval*
Nos. 19-21

Programme 7
Nos. 22-24
*interval*
Nos. 25 & 26

Programme 8
Nos. 27-29
*interval*
Nos. 30-32

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Love it. Your personal Brian Festival! Keep an ambulance ready for after you have finished your binge, for either serious withdrawal symptoms or overused ears.

[cilgwyn]

You may need the Brian recovery position!

[vandermolen]

And it's only taken 40 years! A few more quid in the fund and we might even live to hear his Faust opera?! I think this will be only the second Brian cd (or Lp) to have a mountainscape on the front. The Unicorn cd was the last one. I presume it reflects Brian's metaphorical scaling of the creative peaks? Or just a handy photo?! It looks cool,though! The eighth is often cited as one of his best. I've always had a fondness for the twenty first in the old LSSO recording. One of his most immediately approachable scores,amongst the later ones. I wonder if they can beat that classic recording? The LSSO still seems to reign supreme. Brabbins is good;but it's the LSSO recording I go to first! Newstone's Seventh is another example. Although,I find the Mackerras more satisfactory as a reading (of a Brian symphony) than Brabbins' tenth! But the LSSO were a school orchestra,of course! Conversely,if I want to listen to the Second,Brabbins is now my first port of call,not Mackerras (who is also very good). I also rather like Leslie Head,but I'm digressing a bit now!! Anyway,this is excellent news!

This is such exciting news! No.8 is my favourite, with its wonderfully searching and visionary ending. The Lyrita CD featuring Symphony 6 and 16 has a sort-of mountainous cover image, although more of the Pennines than the Alps.

[cilgwyn]

After hearing them in their recording of the Sinfonia Tragica,I can't wait to hear those Russian sounding horns. Symphony No 21 is one of my favourite of the later symphonies. No 26 is one of the tougher ones (for me,anyway!).This will provide an ideal opportunity for me to finally to grips with it! I just looked at the HB website. The celebrated emi recording was forty years ago! The eighth has one Brian's most memorable and arresting openings. I just wonder how this will come across in the new recording? The score is just waiting for that 'Russian' sound. Those deep sonorites. Everything about it.

Jumping the gun,and being a bit greedy! I know they've all been recorded now;but I hope this won't be the last Brian offering from this team!

[relm1]

I have a general question for you all.  What is it about HB that keeps you returning to him?  What sets him apart in your mind/ears?  I myself am a lifelong fan (since I've been introduced to his music before the 1989 Marco Polo release of the Gothic I was already anticipating it greatly and was not disappointed plus made the pilgrimage to hear it's first concert performance in 30 years in Brisbane in 2010 I believe so I have my own answers to this question but would like to hear from others).  To you, is he Mahler 2.0?  Something even beyond that?  Just an individual and quirky voice???