Havergal Brian.

[vandermolen]

How many minutes/seconds in is the shooting stick incident? It could become as iconic as the fainting choir boy in the Schmidt performance? I shall listen out for it!!!!

Actually it was a few minutes before the start so sadly (?) you wont here it I expect.

[cilgwyn]

I'm in the same boat. It sounds pretty good to me. I was obsessed by HB as a youngster. Everyone I met got to hear about him,whether they liked it or not! These days I've broadened out,but I still find the 'Gothic' enthralling,although my own favourite Brian work,if I had to pick one,is 'The Tigers'.

[cilgwyn]

Not being too familiar with shooting sticks I would be expecting a loud bang!

[Dundonnell]

Not being too familiar with shooting sticks I would be expecting a loud bang!

You sit on them....or in Jeffrey's brother's case, fall off them....rather than fire them

[John Whitmore]

What does however somewhat console me is that John himself does say "Anyway, who cares?" and, without in any way wishing to diminish the quality or force of those particular arguments, I am resolved to rest my own appreciation of the music on a simple, emotional response to the sound I hear

Spot on my friend. Spot on. Who cares. Use your ears and either enjoy the sound or don't enjoy it. Music was written for people not for highly trained robots and critics. Emotion is what it's all about. In many ways I am cursed due to my upbringinging in orchestras and I end up listening to details and flaws instead of listening to the whole. I can't hear the woods for the damn trees but unfortunately I can't untrain my ears. I wish I could! To make things worse I have the dreaded affliction called perfect pitch so any intonation issues drive me up the wall. Maybe I will undergo some therapy or something. Maybe I will stop listening. Anyway Arsenal won and I had a nice bottle of Speckled Hen. Excellent.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Colin flatters me. Yes, I do know my Brian and I think I understand him quite a bit. Malcolm MacDonald remains the unbeatable authority, though. John Grimshaw told me, at the Queens Arms pub, that they could phone Malcolm for the tiniest details of any Brian work. 'What exactly did Brian write in song x?' and he would know.


Another snippet from Matthew-Walker's book, which strengthens the 'Sussex connection' at work in 'The Gothic'. We know Brian connected the Third English Suite with the Sussex Downs and 'The Gothic' with 'freshly-ploughed fields'. Here is another detail, which shows you how personal this work is:


Jim Fuller [a friend of RMW's] had attended the Boult performance of the 'Gothic' the previous year and asked Brian about the use of the birdscare in that score. Brian said the birdscare was introduced as a memory of his younger years in Sussex, of early morning walks over the Downs.

Btw, there is an 'accident' during the Brabbins performance, of course: at the end of the Vivace, a musician (trombonist? I forget)  dropped his mute.

[John Whitmore]

Colin flatters me. Yes, I do know my Brian and I think I understand him quite a bit. Malcolm MacDonald remains the unbeatable authority, though. John Grimshaw told me, at the Queens Arms pub, that they could phone Malcolm for the tiniest details of any Brian work. 'What exactly did Brian write in song x?' and he would know.

Btw, there is an 'accident' during the Brabbins performance, of course: at the end of the Vivace, a musician (trombonist? I forget)  dropped his mute.

The mute being dropped/kicked over is very loud but Hyperion will get rid of it Johan. Pas de problem. There are also a couple of trumpet fluffs and some les than immaculate wind entries but again these are minimal. Correcting the choirs will be the biggest issue for the engineers. Overall it was one hell of an achievement as it should of been with BBC orchestras at the heart of it all. I really enjoy the Brisbane performance but the playing is nowhere near as polished. Chalk and cheese.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I hope they can both remove the organ support and get the choirs pitch-perfect. During the dress rehearsal they didn't lose pitch, so there, perhaps, is the solution...

[Dundonnell]

I am grateful to John for his generous response to what I feared might be interpreted as criticism of a musician's analysis of Brian's music

Johan reminds me of the passage in Malcolm's Volume III of the study of the symphonies in which he discusses HB's response to the landscapes, particularly, of his youth(pages 234-235).

I have always found the evocation of landscape in music-whether intended by the composer or the listener's own perception of the possible influence landscape had on a composer-extremely potent. I realise that for many listeners this may mean little or nothing but I know, for certain, that my own love of so much of Scandinavian music is my perception that the music conjures up in my mind the dark forests of the North or the craggy mountains and fantastic fjord landscape of Norway. When I listen to Tapiola, for example, that is what I hear. And that so-called 'English' sound(yes, Elizabeth Lutyen's derogatory 'cowpat school' comment) does also evoke a deep response to a particular landscape.

I know that such images 'help' me and enrich my appreciation and love of music.....so I am sticking with them

[Luke]

I don't think that was a trombone mute at the end of the Vivace - it was directly over to my left, in the arena, a few rows in front of the first violins. Someone dropped their car keys or something!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I don't think that was a trombone mute at the end of the Vivace - it was directly over to my left, in the arena, a few rows in front of the first violins. Someone dropped their car keys or something!

You could be right. The sound is rather metallic... !

[cilgwyn]

I wrote an enthusiastic letter to Gwydion Brooke,some years ago,after hearing some of his fathers music,(Holbrooke was,as you will know,a friend of Brian). In the letter I moaned about the neglect of certain composers,in the course of which I defended the symphonies of Arnold Bax. I can't remember exactly what I said,but Gwydion Brooke thanked me for my interest in his fathers music & told me that one of the good things about not being a musician or a composer,was that you could enjoy  music for it's own sake,instead of analysing it and worrying about the construction of it.
To my suprise he also sent me a free Lp of Holbrooke's music which he had released on his own record label.

[Dundonnell]

I wrote an enthusiastic letter to Gwydion Brooke,some years ago,after hearing some of his fathers music,(Holbrooke was,as you will know,a friend of Brian). In the letter I moaned about the neglect of certain composers,in the course of which I defended the symphonies of Arnold Bax. I can't remember exactly what I said,but Gwydion Brooke thanked me for my interst in his fathers music & told me that one of the good things about not being a musician or a composer,was that you could enjoy  music for it's own sake,instead of analysing it and worrying about the construction of it.
To my suprise he also sent me a free Lp of Holbrooke's music which he had released on his own record label.

I have said this before (but never mind ), I would love to be able to read music and appreciate its construction, orchestration etc etc. but I don't and therefore, largely, can't.
There is just not enough time left in life to do ALL the things I would like to be able to do

.....but your point is well made

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I have said this before (but never mind ), I would love to be able to read music and appreciate its construction, orchestration etc etc. but I don't and therefore, largely, can't.
There is just not enough time left in life to do ALL the things I would like to be able to do

.....but your point is well made

Teaching yourself to follow along with a score isn't that difficult. The understanding you gain is immense. You can see the things happening on the page and hear them simultaneously, like a play. You start to notice a lot more detail. I love scores! But, as you say, life is short and there are so many things you can do!

[cilgwyn]

Of course,there is always the possibility that GB was just trying to cheer me up!!!!
As to learning to read a score.When I was young I always dreamed about being a composer. Unfortunately,all I did was hide when it was time for my 'dreaded' piano lesson!
Trying to write novels and paint is tough enough,let alone trying to learn/do something else. I think I'd be dragged off on a stretcher,or worse!

[cilgwyn]

I remember trying to learn,years ago. I was told that concerto's are a good way to start. You simply follow the line of the instrument (a Violin was recommended) up and down as you listen,then gradually take in some others. Maybe 'easy ones' like percussion. I have a copy of Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto & Ravel's Bolero somewhere,which I thought would,for obvious reasons,be fairly easy to follow.
At the opposite extreme,I remember Robert Simpson saying that 'Opus Clavecembalisticum' (hope I got THAT right!) took him years to get to grips with.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I just saw on Twitter that the score of 'The Gothic' is available for download from ISMLP, but only in the USA. The work isn't out of copyright elsewhere...

[Brian]

I just saw on Twitter that the score of 'The Gothic' is available for download from ISMLP, but only in the USA. The work isn't out of copyright elsewhere...

I can verify that it is downloadable from the USA at this link. Each movement is a separate PDF file - otherwise the full score would have been a single 45 megabyte document!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks for the verification, Brian! Speaking of links - the one below your excellent Musicweb article about 'The Gothic' and the critics, doesn't bring you to the two 'Gothic' pieces on your blog, but only to the blog itself, which has obviously moved on quite a bit...

[karlhenning]

Very cool!  Kind of a sad footnote to the Brian saga, that copyright for the piece was not registered in the US . . . but, as I am a beneficiary of the snarl in the red tape . . . .