Havergal Brian.

[cilgwyn]

Of course,No 17 has been recorded. A bit of a blooper! I was typing out quite allot here & I must admit it's not one of my favourite occupations!!! (I already edited out No 29!)

I like you're descriptions of the others. So MM isn't convinced by 13 & 14? Now,if only I'd hung onto those books. If this Brian renaissance continues someone seriously needs to get those reprinted (Incidentally,is there any hope of that?)
  No13 is preceded by the twelfth (as it would be!),which is one Brian symphony I tend to avoid. Not because it's not interesting,but because it is so grim,even scary. It has a very menacing atmosphere in places,but also moments of serenity. Unsuprising,given the source of inspiration. In my opinion the Marco Polo performance is quite good,although my first encounter was with a tape of the Prom performance.
  Anyway,I digress! Symphonies 13-14 are particularly intriguing,owing to the fact that they are not available in commercial recordings & their pivotal position between some of the better known symphonies,particularly 10 & also 16,thanks to the celebrated Lyrita recording. No 19 is another one & once I get some more cdrs I will make up some cds exclusively devoted to these works. (Over the last couple of weeks I've burned around 65-70 cds & only need a couple more!) These are obviously important works,as you know,even if they aren't discussed as much as some of the others. You can't really 'understand' one without the other,can you? Another point,Brian's later symphonies are more abstract,so,they're obviously more difficult to discuss in 'laymans' terms. No references to 'Gotz von berlichingen',Goethe,enigmatic scribblings (Altarus),or possible allusions to 'goings on' in Nazi Germany to ruminate about & help you along,just the music alone!!!

I just found this page on the internet with a nice link to the Poole performance. When I scrolled down I discovered,unsuprisingly,that you're eagle eye had caught it first!

http://randomclassics.blogspot.com/2009/10/havergal-brians-symphony-no-4-with.html

Incidentally,lot's of interesting stuff on that blog!

As to Henry Kimball Hadley. I'm not expecting anything as absorbing & interesting as Brian & I'm pretty certain I won't get that. But that's the kind of review I like. Lots of detail (and the conductor even has enough enthusiasm to reply!). You even get a print out of the text! Of course,it might all just be a little TOO enthusiastic,but that's what I'm going to find out! As to Andrew Clements,the man (as a music critic,anyway) is a bore!

My pre-orders of the month: Brian Gothic Symphony Hyperion ordered from Amazon
                                           "     Music from the opera's (Vol 2) Toccata    "     HMV

[Hattoff]

Couldn't wait. Downloaded the Hyperion Gothic. Two things; 1) Hyperion engineers have done a wonderful job; 2) Havergal Brian was a genius.

Hard luck on anyone who can't hear that.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

First news from the front!! Could you be more precise, Steve? What, would you say, is the main difference between the recordings we have and Hyperion's 'wonderful job'?

[Hattoff]

Johan,

The main difference is that this time I really have wet myself. It's wonderful.

I'm not a writer, you can all come to your own conclusions.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Well, I don't want Brian to make me incontinent,    but I deduce the Hyperion Gothic must be extremely exciting!

[Hattoff]

Go with the flow.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

 

[cilgwyn]

A change of pants on the cards,I see! Perhaps I'd better order some rubber ones,for the big event,just in case. On second thoughts, maybe not,people might get funny ideas!

[John Whitmore]

Johan,

The main difference is that this time I really have wet myself. It's wonderful.

I'm not a writer, you can all come to your own conclusions.

Have the mistakes and extraneous noises been removed and is the sound superior, and if so by how much vs the live relay?

[kishnevi]

Listening now to another of those Naxos CDs (RTE National S.O., Leaper cond.).  Must say Huzzah for Dr. Merryheart!  (and it's a very British sounding piece of music, too).  But the switch to the opening of Symphony 11 is a  bit of a change of pace....

[Hattoff]

Have the mistakes and extraneous noises been removed and is the sound superior, and if so by how much vs the live relay?

Apart from some muffled coughs all the unwanted noise has been removed. I can't hear any instrumental mistakes and even the drops in pitch seem to have been sorted out. To my ears while using headphones the sound was actually stunning, I could hear all sorts of musical things that I have not heard before.  There are very few longeurs in this long symphony, it is completely jam packed with brilliant ideas, twists and turns of harmony and sheer beauty.
I feel very, very sorry for those people who are unfortunate enough to not understand HB.

Hyperbowely yesterday, hyperbole today.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Apart from some muffled coughs all the unwanted noise has been removed. I can't hear any instrumental mistakes and even the drops in pitch seem to have been sorted out. To my ears while using headphones the sound was actually stunning, I could hear all sorts of musical things that I have not heard before.  There are very few longeurs in this long symphony, it is completely jam packed with brilliant ideas, twists and turns of harmony and sheer beauty.
I feel very, very sorry for those people who are unfortunate enough to not understand HB.

Hyperbowely yesterday, hyperbole today.

When I had lunch with the HBS committee the day after the concert, we talked about the 'dropped pitch problem'. And either Martin Anderson (of Toccata fame) or John Grimshaw (Chairman) then said that engineers could pull off such a feat. If that has happened, that's great!

[John Whitmore]

When I had lunch with the HBS committee the day after the concert, we talked about the 'dropped pitch problem'. And either Martin Anderson (of Toccata fame) or John Grimshaw (Chairman) then said that engineers could pull off such a feat. If that has happened, that's great!

Johan, I would have expected this. Even I can sort out pitch issues and I use sellotape and old fairy liquid bottles on the kitchen table compared to Hyperion. You remember Blue Peter I assume? I once sourced a concert tape of the Tippett Piano Concerto and it was a major second flat. With some tweaking I got it back to concert pitch - I think it was on one of the CDs I sent you a month or so back.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Johan, I would have expected this. Even I can sort out pitch issues and I use sellotape and old fairy liquid bottles on the kitchen table compared to Hyperion. You remember Blue Peter I assume? I once sourced a concert tape of the Tippett Piano Concerto and it was a major second flat. With some tweaking I got it back to concert pitch - I think it was on one of the CDs I sent you a month or so back.

Then you're a wizard, too.


Here is a review of the Gothic performance by one Christopher Gunning I missed back in July:


http://www.seenandheard-international.com/2011/07/19/prom-4-christopher-gunning-who-sang-in-the-very-first-performance-experiences-havergal-brians-gothic-symphony-at-the-proms/#more-5565

[John Whitmore]

Then you're a wizard, too.


Here is a review of the Gothic performance by one Christopher Gunning I missed back in July:


http://www.seenandheard-international.com/2011/07/19/prom-4-christopher-gunning-who-sang-in-the-very-first-performance-experiences-havergal-brians-gothic-symphony-at-the-proms/#more-5565

I am indeed a wizard so stay on my side otherwise I will change you into a newt.

[John Whitmore]

Here is a review of the Gothic performance by one Christopher Gunning I missed back in July:

http://www.seenandheard-international.com/2011/07/19/prom-4-christopher-gunning-who-sang-in-the-very-first-performance-experiences-havergal-brians-gothic-symphony-at-the-proms/#more-5565

Now that's what I call a review. Not a million miles from my own thoughts either. One thing's for sure - without Bob Simpson's efforts I don't think the Unicorn,CBS or the later Marco Polo recordings would have materialised. That would have kept HB firmly on a shelf gathering dust. Bob started the snowball off and anyone at all interested in this music should be eternally grateful. Not to be too controversial, I prefer the Simpson symphony cycle to HBs. Reach for tin hat.....

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Now that's what I call a review. Not a million miles from my own thoughts either. One thing's for sure - without Bob Simpson's efforts I don't think the Unicorn,CBS or the later Marco Polo recordings would have materialised. That would have kept HB firmly on a shelf gathering dust. Bob started the snowball off and anyone at all interested in this music should be eternally grateful. Not to be too controversial, I prefer the Simpson symphony cycle to HBs. Reach for tin hat.....

Yes, without Robert Simpson there would have been no Brian 'Renaissance'. His role has been pivotal, and is still having an influence.


Leave your rusty tin hat where it is. Simpson's symphonic cycle is intellectually superior to Brian's, I think. He really tried to apply everything he learned from Beethoven and Nielsen to his own compositional practice. His symphonies are superb. Still - I prefer Brian's cycle, because I can connect with it. Simpson is all process, development, inevitabilty. I like Brian's freedom and, despite the enigmatic nature of much of his music, the very strong personality I can sense there. Brian's music moves and thrills me. Simpson's music, at its strongest, is as impressive as a supernova, but I can't relate to it as a human being.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Short review of the Brabbins Gothic in today's Observer (with comment by John Grimshaw):


http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/nov/27/havergal-brian-gothic-symphony-1-review

[cilgwyn]

Hm! Not bad really,for a mainstream newspaper. It's almost as if she quite liked it,but doesn 't want to say it 'out loud!'
I prefer Fiona Maddocks to Andrew Clements. She can be amusing at times;although this is not one of her best (it's so short). I remember her being very sarcastic about Brian once,but at least she was funny (well,my father laughed! But he doesn't like music!!! ).
I'd feel pretty happy about THAT review if I was you,Johan;but then of course,I'm not!!!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Well, I can live with this review. And I also get the feeling the piece carried her along. But as she can't 'legitimise' her experience, she has to say "Few regard it as a masterpiece"...