Havergal Brian.

[Dundonnell]

Makes me quite proud that such a reasonable review should appear in a Scottish newspaper

One might not agree with everything that Kenneth Walton says but he IS making a genuine attempt to come to terms with the work-which is a hell of a lot more than can be said for many other critics

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Mahler's style is far more emotional. Brian writes as it were in the third person, not the first.

Makes me quite proud that such a reasonable review should appear in a Scottish newspaper

One might not agree with everything that Kenneth Walton says but he IS making a genuine attempt to come to terms with the work-which is a hell of a lot more than can be said for many other critics

Perhaps there is no negative consensus he has to fear and follow, like his English (London) brethren...

[Lethevich]

Brian's Gothic is deeply involved with the whole of the Western musical tradition. All his heroes are there and the works he knew, loved and had studied closely.

It is curious that despite this fact, Brian's own compositional method used to represent this was so individual. In a way it seems like a precursor to the nostalgia post-modernism of post-WW2, with composers like Rihm or Henze writing pieces deeply involved in "past matters". Or even just something like Strauss' Metamorphosen.

Do you feel that despite Brian himself being deeply involved in the music, his relative lack of performance and exposure left what he had to say on the tradition just as isolated as those later composers, even though he was a near-contemporary to some?

[cilgwyn]

Indeed (me and my link attempts! ) I wonder if being so far from all the London/Home counties based critics helps him make up his mind for himself?  At this rate he could be posting here,with us,before long!

Just saw you're post,Johan. I was thinking the same.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

It is curious that despite this fact, Brian's own compositional method used to represent this was so individual. In a way it seems like a precursor to the nostalgia post-modernism of post-WW2, with composers like Rihm or Henze writing pieces deeply involved in "past matters". Or even just something like Strauss' Metamorphosen.

Do you feel that despite Brian himself being deeply involved in the music, his relative lack of performance and exposure left what he had to say on the tradition just as isolated as those later composers, even though he was a near-contemporary to some?

Good question. I had to think about that. My answer would be - Brian's connection with the past has nothing 'retro' about it, and isn't nostalgic. He was born in the 19th century and in himself embodies two centuries, two sensibilities, a grand one, a cool one. That's what makes him so fascinating. You can see the same thing in Mahler, too, but in a way he died too soon. Brian composed well into the 1960s. In his music I can hear the Romanticism he was born into transform into a sort of Modernism, and later into something wholly unique, with elements of both combined. This is what makes his work so difficult to understand or place. And an inspiration for anyone who tries to combine the best of the past to make sense of the present and light the way to the future... Isolated he may have been, but his influence can only grow. As for Rihm and Henze, I don't know.

[Lethevich]

Danke! I find the composer most curious because he sounds modern almost right from the start, to me. Even his early overture style pieces have a heavy, condensed, sometimes cranky quality to them which feels neither part of classical Romanticism like Parry, or post-Wagnerian "plush" Romanticism like Strauss. Overall I have a tremendously difficult time treating the composer as even partly 'pure' Romantic, based on the sound of his music alone. It does get a little easier with 2-5, though, as the slightly reduced scale makes the harmonies Brian uses less thunderously jarring.

His weirdly polyphonic, contrapunctual 27th is full of the same difficulties that I find in the Gothic, for example, but condensed - and as a result, easier to take. Good lord I wish Dutton would record this one. I admit, Ave atque vale still eludes me. It's too brief, too pointalistic for my understanding at the moment, so I suppose this does mean that Brian's style was being continually refined right until the end.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Danke! I find the composer most curious because he sounds modern almost right from the start, to me. Even his early overture style pieces have a heavy, condensed, sometimes cranky quality to them which feels neither part of classical Romanticism like Parry, or post-Wagnerian "plush" Romanticism like Strauss. Overall I have a tremendously difficult time treating the composer as even partly 'pure' Romantic, based on the sound of his music alone. It does get a little easier with 2-5, though, as the slightly reduced scale makes the harmonies Brian uses less thunderously jarring.

His weirdly polyphonic, contrapunctual 27th is full of the same difficulties that I find in the Gothic, for example, but condensed - and as a result, easier to take. Good lord I wish Dutton would record this one. I admit, Ave atque vale still eludes me. It's too brief, too pointalistic for my understanding at the moment, so I suppose this does mean that Brian's style was being continually refined right until the end.

No. 27 is among the best of the very late symphonies. It is very rich and very violent (I think). I don't know if you know Klemperer's performance of the Missa Solemnis? When I heard that for the first time, I was bowled over by the superhuman strength of the piece, it never lets up. Brian's 27th, in its smaller way, is the same. It is as if these two composers are pitting everything they have against the powers of - what? Death?


As for Ave Atque Vale - I think both the performance and the recording could be better. It is a curious piece, though, I agree. It is as if Brian brings together all the elements of his (late) style for one last time. The ending is magical. It really is a farewell, and completely unsentimental.


Oh, and Brian was never a fully paid-up member of Romanticism, in my view. There I agree with you, too. He is far too knowing and ironic for that. But Romanticism is there.

[Lethevich]

No. 27 is among the best of the very late symphonies. It is very rich and very violent (I think). I don't know if you know Klemperer's performance of the Missa Solemnis? When I heard that for the first time, I was bowled over by the superhuman strength of the piece, it never lets up. Brian's 27th, in its smaller way, is the same. It is as if these two composers are pitting everything they have against the powers of - what? Death?

Wow, that is interesting - I find myself experiencing all manner of silly images or feelings with music (Brian's 27th for example is ruddy, rust red), and until now I hadn't realised that my images for that work and Klemperer's styles were remarkably consistent; muscular, unsmiling, but with a joy revealed in the process of the musicmaking rather than neccessarily the sound or emotion from the work. A work like the 27th reminds me of an iron-cored planet like Mercury: dense, scarred, but bathed in sunlight - something I also get from Klemperer's somewhat granitic take on, say, Beethoven's 5th (both mono and stereo eras). Woah, time to end that train of weird fluff from me There is always the sense of large powers in Brian's music, but I find them more literal than metaphysical - like plate tectonics.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I have been listening to Brian's music all day, as a means of getting into my creative groove. And what a joy it has been! The music is so varied and powerful. That sense of 'large powers', yes, it is there, certainly. And Brian, being the agnostic he was, is more literal than metaphysic, more earthly than heavenly. Still, he has a strong visionary streak - listen to the calm, cosmic ending of his 29th, or the close of the 10th.


And now it's late. Time for bed...

[hbswebmaster]

After immersion in the Brabbins Gothic over the last few weeks, I put Schmidt on today under the guise of 'tidying up the sitting room' (which is where the hi-fi is, of course) to remind myself of another way of looking at the music. After the intricate detail and controlled mayhem of Brabbins, I was struck again by what a vast, epic reading Schmidt's is. Trenchant, gritty, fearsome ... and heartrending in places. The a cappella 'in te, Domine, speravi' before the final cataclysm is possibly the most tender and ultimately soaring performance of all so far.

What a multi-faceted work this is.

Here's another review of the Brabbins. (http://www.recordsinternational.com/cd.php?cd=12N002)

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Wonderful review! I wonder who wrote it. I'll listen to the Schmidt Gothic tonight...

[cilgwyn]

It's heartening to see the Gothic getting some better & even really good reviews,now.

[Lethevich]

I have played Vol.2 of the Toccata series enough for it not to sound like white noise, and so far my favourites are the Faust Night Ride, and the arranged Turandot Suite. It's audibly not by the composer of origin even ignoring the liner notes, because its movements just don't sound like movements (in the way, say, the English Suites do) - and the final one in particular just fades out. I suspect Brian would've done some recomposition here?

The Cenci prelude is neat, as I had hoped, although surprisingly... overture-sounding. I mention this as a mild disappointment because ever since I heard that the 6th symphony was originally intended as a gargantuan prelude to an abandoned opera project, I have been bothered by what might have been. Even Wagner did not reach this height of symphonism in his introdutions. The Cenci prelude is nice, but much different. This makes me wonder - was the 6th perhaps substantially altered ('beefed up') before it was published as a stand-alone symphony? Or perhaps because the Cenci is, iirc, a late work, it is just as complex, but in that elusive late style which allows works like Ave atque vale to go in one ear and out the other - for me, anyway.

[John Whitmore]

After immersion in the Brabbins Gothic over the last few weeks, I put Schmidt on today under the guise of 'tidying up the sitting room' (which is where the hi-fi is, of course) to remind myself of another way of looking at the music. After the intricate detail and controlled mayhem of Brabbins, I was struck again by what a vast, epic reading Schmidt's is. Trenchant, gritty, fearsome ... and heartrending in places. The a cappella 'in te, Domine, speravi' before the final cataclysm is possibly the most tender and ultimately soaring performance of all so far.

What a multi-faceted work this is.

Here's another review of the Brabbins. (http://www.recordsinternational.com/cd.php?cd=12N002)

A perfectly decent, positive sounding review but why does the reviewer state that the Schmidt can never be released on CD due to technical issues with the recording? My bog standard MP3 download sounds pretty good on CD. With a bit of professional tinkering it would be pefectly decent for CD release. There's some ancient mono stuff out there in the market complete with 78 swish so this comment really baffles me. Question - now that Hyperion have polished the whole thing up and removed the glitches, is 22 quid a sound investment (no pun intended) or is the BBC broadcast fairly similar?

[John Whitmore]

Wonderful review! I wonder who wrote it. I'll listen to the Schmidt Gothic tonight...

I assumed that it was you

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I assumed that it was you

It certainly was well-informed and effusive... 

Question - now that Hyperion have polished the whole thing up and removed the glitches, is 22 quid a sound investment (no pun intended) or is the BBC broadcast fairly similar?

My copy is coming this week. But judging by the reactions I have read, the Hyperion Gothic is an enormous improvement on the radio broadcast.

The Cenci prelude is neat, as I had hoped, although surprisingly... overture-sounding. I mention this as a mild disappointment because ever since I heard that the 6th symphony was originally intended as a gargantuan prelude to an abandoned opera project, I have been bothered by what might have been. Even Wagner did not reach this height of symphonism in his introdutions. The Cenci prelude is nice, but much different. This makes me wonder - was the 6th perhaps substantially altered ('beefed up') before it was published as a stand-alone symphony? Or perhaps because the Cenci is, iirc, a late work, it is just as complex, but in that elusive late style which allows works like Ave atque vale to go in one ear and out the other - for me, anyway.

The Cenci prelude is very Beethovenian, I think. It sounds very 'sonata form', quite uncommon for Brian, with a thrusting first and a lyrical second subject. It's interesting that the opening movement of the Ninth Symphony, which was composed just before the opera, is in sonata form, too. As for the Tragica, I know as much as Malcolm MacDonald, who writes: We do not know if he had written any of the opera proper, if any of it now survives, nor if the plan of the original Prelude was enlarged to include any of the opera's material. (MM, Symphonies of HB vol. 1, p. 121).

[Lethevich]

As for the Tragica, I know as much as Malcolm MacDonald, who writes: We do not know if he had written any of the opera proper, if any of it now survives, nor if the plan of the original Prelude was enlarged to include any of the opera's material. (MM, Symphonies of HB vol. 1, p. 121).

Ah, confirmation from the scripture I find it hard to believe it wasn't fixed in some way - how could any opening scene follow that? But it's such a 'what-if?'

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The Tragica is thematically so taut and strong, I wonder if the operatic version would have felt like a dilution...

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I found this on Twitter:

@GlobalNews247: Listening Post /Brief reviews of select releases: Classical Havergal Brian, Symphony No. 1 inD-Mino... http://t.co/GhYFCqL0 #Music #News

The review is a bit incoherent at times and contains a few mistakes (Brian wrote more than 20 symphonies after his First). But the work gets three out of four stars... And it's nice to see a new Hobbit on the block - Martyn Braggins.

[Mirror Image]

Can anyone comment on this recording with Brabbins? I'm very interested in it. How would you rate the music? Essential Brian?



Thanks in advance.