Havergal Brian.

[petrarch]

When you're back, let's take some tea.

Yes!

[petrarch]

So I have listened to Psalm 23, Symphony 22, the first part of the Gothic and am halfway through the pre-Proms talk.

I find Symphony 22 more interesting than Psalm 23, but neither did much for me. The first part of the Gothic is good; I love the changes in direction and the jagged contours. I particularly like the sparse passages with those soaring solo lines. I wish the full orchestra bits could be more transparent and delineated--I was tempted to switch to Varèse or Cerha momentarily to satisfy that desire. I listened to extracts of part 2, and the choir reminded me of Welt-Parlament (or was it Engel-Prozessionen?) in the bits that caught my ear; some others were not really my cup of tea (I am not really a big fan of post-baroque vocal music). All in all, still something worthy of digging into more thoroughly.

From the pre-Proms talk: A pro musician talking about 16va???

[Karl Henning]

Didn't he mean 15^ma, you mean?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

So I have listened to Psalm 23, Symphony 22, the first part of the Gothic and am halfway through the pre-Proms talk.

I find Symphony 22 more interesting than Psalm 23, but neither did much for me. The first part of the Gothic is good; I love the changes in direction and the jagged contours. I particularly like the sparse passages with those soaring solo lines. I wish the full orchestra bits could be more transparent and delineated--I was tempted to switch to Varèse or Cerha momentarily to satisfy that desire. I listened to extracts of part 2, and the choir reminded me of Welt-Parlament (or was it Engel-Prozessionen?) in the bits that caught my ear; some others were not really my cup of tea (I am not really a big fan of post-baroque vocal music). All in all, still something worthy of digging into more thoroughly.

From the pre-Proms talk: A pro musician talking about 16va???

The Brabbins will take care of that. You can find a splendid review and the broadcast here:


http://5-against-4.blogspot.com/2011/07/proms-2011-havergal-brian-symphony-no-1.html

[John Whitmore]

So I have listened to Psalm 23, Symphony 22, the first part of the Gothic and am halfway through the pre-Proms talk.

I find Symphony 22 more interesting than Psalm 23, but neither did much for me. The first part of the Gothic is good; I love the changes in direction and the jagged contours. I particularly like the sparse passages with those soaring solo lines. I wish the full orchestra bits could be more transparent and delineated--I was tempted to switch to Varèse or Cerha momentarily to satisfy that desire. I listened to extracts of part 2, and the choir reminded me of Welt-Parlament (or was it Engel-Prozessionen?) in the bits that caught my ear; some others were not really my cup of tea (I am not really a big fan of post-baroque vocal music). All in all, still something worthy of digging into more thoroughly.

From the pre-Proms talk: A pro musician talking about 16va???

Don't despair just yet. Give No.10 a spin.

[snyprrr]

So I have listened to Psalm 23, Symphony 22, the first part of the Gothic and am halfway through the pre-Proms talk.

I find Symphony 22 more interesting than Psalm 23, but neither did much for me. The first part of the Gothic is good; I love the changes in direction and the jagged contours. I particularly like the sparse passages with those soaring solo lines. I wish the full orchestra bits could be more transparent and delineated--I was tempted to switch to Varèse or Cerha momentarily to satisfy that desire. I listened to extracts of part 2, and the choir reminded me of Welt-Parlament (or was it Engel-Prozessionen?) in the bits that caught my ear; some others were not really my cup of tea (I am not really a big fan of post-baroque vocal music). All in all, still something worthy of digging into more thoroughly.

From the pre-Proms talk: A pro musician talking about 16va???

I didn't know criticism was allowed on this Thread!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I didn't know criticism was allowed on this Thread!

Our Gulag is well hidden...


@Paulo Symphony No. 22 is one of the most uncompromising of Brian's late symphonies and not a work I would recommend as a first introduction... No. 10 is another matter entirely. The performance John furnished you with is excellent. It is Brian at his characteristic best.

[John Whitmore]

Our Gulag is well hidden...


@Paulo Symphony No. 22 is one of the most uncompromising of Brian's late symphonies and not a work I would recommend as a first introduction... No. 10 is another matter entirely. The performance John furnished you with is excellent. It is Brian at his characteristic best.

Should we send Paulo a link to No.4 or would you like him to hang around a bit longer now that he's trying to be friends with our group of 70 year old, sandal wearing, straggly haired, incense sniffing, unwashed, out of work, bearded yetties?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

 


Let Paulo explore some more. If Brian is to his taste, excellent! If not, he'll at least has tried.

[petrarch]

Didn't he mean 15^ma, you mean?

That is what he meant, of course, but I would expect a pro musician to not fall into that mistake.

[Karl Henning]

Yes, rather sloppy.

[petrarch]

Symphony No. 22 is one of the most uncompromising of Brian's late symphonies and not a work I would recommend as a first introduction...

Uncompromising in what sense?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Uncompromising in what sense?

It's the shortest of them all, only nine minutes. The music is rather dissonant, the thought is very quick and it's not easy to get your bearings on a first listen. The sound isn't 'cosy'. It's a warlike symphony with a bleak conclusion. It has flashes of beauty, but taken as a whole, it is a very grim work.

[petrarch]

I wish the full orchestra bits could be more transparent and delineated

The Brabbins will take care of that.

I was listening to the Brabbins. But I'll give it more time and more listens.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I was listening to the Brabbins. But I'll give it more time and more listens.

Ah... Well, perhaps you'll have to get used to Brian's sound. He's no Ravel or Mahler, though he can be as transparant if he wants to. But the main impression I always get is one of solidity, however contrapuntal the music may be...


And now I'll have to cook!

[petrarch]

It's the shortest of them all, only nine minutes. The music is rather dissonant, the thought is very quick and it's not easy to get your bearings on a first listen. The sound isn't 'cosy'. It's a warlike symphony with a bleak conclusion. It has flashes of beauty, but taken as a whole, it is a very grim work.

In other words, my kind of work . I would say texturally it didn't do much for me--I don't mind dissonance at all.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

No. 22 is rather grey. No. 10, again, is something else. Perhaps that work is more to your liking. Thanks for listening!

[Dundonnell]

Another Review on Musicweb, this time from Nick Barnard:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Dec11/Brian_Gothic_CDA679712.htm

He makes many interesting points which the cognoscenti will wish to discuss no doubt
'
........but can I just draw your attention to his last paragraph which contains a recent quote from our friend Andrew Clements of The Guardian. Clements is writing about Delius's 'Mass of Life' and he writes:

"Hardcore English-music enthusiasts are easy enough to spot. Male, conservatively dressed and middle-aged (you suspect most of them looked middle-aged when they were in their 20s), they invariably have an air of disappointment, as if the music they support so enthusiastically has never quite lived up to the expectations they load upon it."

This is just about the most downright objectionable, offensive, patronizing, sneering comment that even this gentlemen has penned to date

How in heaven (or earth) someone who, presumably, purports to love music can wish to so gratuitously insult, offend and denigrate other music-lovers is utterly beyond my comprehension

[Lethevich]

Male, conservatively dressed and middle-aged (you suspect most of them looked middle-aged when they were in their 20s), they invariably have an air of disappointment [...]

Of course, Clements on the other hand... oh wait

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Of course, Clements on the other hand... oh wait

I just read Nick Barnard's review. A very clear and level-headed affair. Interesting that he is far from throwing Lenard's Gothic in the bin. In some of the key passages Lenard and his Slovak forces can be better than Brabbins (as Sarge also said yesterday). A few salient quotes:


"Brian is like a child set free in an orchestral toyshop gleefully experimenting with combinations of instruments and resulting textures that would never be found in any guide to orchestration."


"The sheer fecundity of Brian's inspiration is both the work's strength and its source of confusion and annoyance for some. That said, Brian was never seeking to continue or advance the Germanic symphonic tradition through any kind of use of standard musical forms. As a listener you have to embrace the evolutionary concept of much of his handling of structure rather than yearning for neat and tidy sonata form."


"The strength of this work is proved by the fact that ownership of any of the three currently available versions will give great pleasure - a great piece will reveal different facets in different hands. If I was allowed to keep only one, I would opt for this new version but the gap between this and the Naxos is a lot less than one might think especially with regard to the choral contribution."


On to the next review!