Havergal Brian.

[Sergeant Rock]

I've spoken with a trumpet player in the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra and he said Bruckner was one of his least favorite composers to play. Not because the music is bad, mind you, but because of the endurance that is required in order to perform it. I bet the third movement from the 9th is really tough on them.

There is the famous Jochum Concertgebouw performance of the Bruckner Fifth. He encored the performance with...a repeat of the last movement! Those poor brass players. They must have been hurting.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

I don't know what "Knicks" are

You are so blessed  0:)

Sarge

[Mirror Image]

I typed this reply a little too late!
Indeed! Koechlin's like a French equivalent to Brian. Like Brian there is a lot of variety in his music,it is very original (yet approachable) & he is,for all kinds of reasons (his interests,preoccupations) a very interesting person to discuss!

I don't want to hijack this thread, but, yes, there's a lot of variety in Koechlin's music, especially if we were to just examine The Jungle Book. What a kaleidoscopic, whirlwind of originality and musical poetry! I continue to keep referring back to this work because I think it's truly one of the greatest achievements of the 20th Century and it's most definitely an unsung classic. Why people aren't more familiar with it? Beats me, but Koechlin has been suffering the same fate as Brian it seems. I don't think either composer will be a household name like a Ravel or Stravinsky, but I think once a person's curiosity is peaked, then two new discoveries will be just around the corner.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thank you, Johan

You-at least- appreciate a 'stream of consciousness' essay Others want to talk about Knicks and gardens I don't know what "Knicks" are(and I am not going to scroll back to find out ) and I live in a flat and don't have a garden

As for Bruckner and Simpson.....oh, I am not sure I can be bothered If John doesn't like Bruckner so be it. I don't like Rachmaninov or Delius or York Bowen, I am not too keen on Debussy or later Stravinsky or Schoenberg etc etc. So what

With both Bruckner and Simpson...yes, here I go ...I feel that I am starting out on a musical journey, a journey coloured and infused with rich orchestral grandeur, that there will be passages of glorious sounding music with those distinctive, imposing brass chorales which will raise the hackles on my neck and fill me with an almost orgasmic pleasure and delight and a journey which will culminate in my arrival at a destination of spiritual exhaustion and fulfillment.


.....but, Hey, that's just me We all get something different from music

Interesting. I deduce that it is the sense of epic scale that enthuses you most. Delius, Debussy, Bowen et al are in essence composers of exquisite moments and sensations. Delius can build with the best of them, but his is a fluid architecture, not a monumental one. As you know I like both, they correspond with the extremes of my nature. As you say: We all get something different from music. To which I add: we also look for different things because of our temperament.

[Sergeant Rock]

.....but, Hey, that's just me

No, not just you. Bruckner is miraculous.

Sarge

[cilgwyn]

Thank you, Johan

You-at least- appreciate a 'stream of consciousness' essay Others want to talk about Knicks and gardens I don't know what "Knicks" are(and I am not going to scroll back to find out ) and I live in a flat and don't have a garden

As for Bruckner and Simpson.....oh, I am not sure I can be bothered If John doesn't like Bruckner so be it. I don't like Rachmaninov or Delius or York Bowen, I am not too keen on Debussy or later Stravinsky or Schoenberg etc etc. So what

With both Bruckner and Simpson...yes, here I go ...I feel that I am starting out on a musical journey, a journey coloured and infused with rich orchestral grandeur, that there will be passages of glorious sounding music with those distinctive, imposing brass chorales which will raise the hackles on my neck and fill me with an almost orgasmic pleasure and delight and a journey which will culminate in my arrival at a destination of spiritual exhaustion and fulfillment.


.....but, Hey, that's just me We all get something different from music

I like Bruckner too!

[cilgwyn]

We all like Bruckner? John's looking a bit isolated now!
But what's this about "orgasmic pleasure"!!!
I don't remember Bruckner doing that to me!

I knew I was missing something!

[Sergeant Rock]

You-at least- appreciate a 'stream of consciousness' essay Others want to talk about Knicks and gardens

If I hadn't consumed an entire bottle of exquisite Riesling tonight, I might be a little more serious    But, as it is, gardens and the Knicks seem more relevant in my altered state 

Sarge

[Mirror Image]

Thank you, Johan

You-at least- appreciate a 'stream of consciousness' essay Others want to talk about Knicks and gardens I don't know what "Knicks" are(and I am not going to scroll back to find out ) and I live in a flat and don't have a garden

As for Bruckner and Simpson.....oh, I am not sure I can be bothered If John doesn't like Bruckner so be it. I don't like Rachmaninov or Delius or York Bowen, I am not too keen on Debussy or later Stravinsky or Schoenberg etc etc. So what

With both Bruckner and Simpson...yes, here I go ...I feel that I am starting out on a musical journey, a journey coloured and infused with rich orchestral grandeur, that there will be passages of glorious sounding music with those distinctive, imposing brass chorales which will raise the hackles on my neck and fill me with an almost orgasmic pleasure and delight and a journey which will culminate in my arrival at a destination of spiritual exhaustion and fulfillment.


.....but, Hey, that's just me We all get something different from music

Absolutely, Colin. It pained me to read that you don't get anything from Debussy, but we're all so different from each others and, plus, there's so much music to go around. There's something for everybody in classical music.

[Mirror Image]

There is the famous Jochum Concertgebouw performance of the Bruckner Fifth. He encored the performance with...a repeat of the last movement! Those poor brass players. They must have been hurting.

Sarge

Those poor musicians.

[Sergeant Rock]

But what's this about "orgasmic pleasure"!!!
I knew I was missing something!

Obviously you are missing one of the most important aspects of Bruckner. Almost alone among composers, he can induce orgasm in the receptive. Brian can too, e.g., the (literal) climax of the Gothic's Vivace, aka, the single greatest chord in classical music history 

Sarge

[cilgwyn]

 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The category of Kleenex composers is completely new to me.

[cilgwyn]

  Not sure what to say to that!

[Brian]

Obviously you are missing one of the most important aspects of Bruckner. Almost alone among composers, he can induce orgasm in the receptive. Brian can too, e.g., the (literal) climax of the Gothic's Vivace, aka, the single greatest chord in classical music history 

Sarge

Actually genuinely sincerely true: my MusicWeb already review includes the line, "Nothing about the Gothic could be called "orgasmic," it's far too austere for that..."

The category of Kleenex composers is completely new to me.

Scriabin's La poeme. Also, I saw Janacek's Sinfonietta live with a Panamanian swimsuit model who described it as "orgasmic." She said this outdoors, and very very loudly. So it must be true.

[Sergeant Rock]

The category of Kleenex composers is completely new to me.

Oh come on, Johan...don't be coy. We all know you've had some intimate late night experiences with Havergal's music 

Sarge

[cilgwyn]

Is Dundonnell still with us?!!!

[Dundonnell]

You are absolutely correct, Johan.

Our appreciation of music and our musical preferences DO reflect our own individual temperaments. I can acknowledge and possibly even admire the beauty of a flower but I prefer to gaze at a mountain in awe at its grandeur and epic scale. (You don't have many mountains in the Netherlands do you ).

I don't much care if orchestral brass players find Bruckner taxing and difficult to play. When a passage in a Bruckner symphony reaches the point when the brass roar forth in majesty and splendour I am in heaven(I shall ignore cilgwyn's suggestion of pursuing further my excessively personal reference to orgasmic pleasure ).

As for comparative neglect. Havergal Brian was a greater composer than Fricker, Hamilton or Searle. His music is deeper, more varied, more inspired, more inspiring. Yes..he has benefited from the enthusiastic, almost fanatical advocacy of a growing band of devotees and this now seems to be paying off to an increasing extent. And he deserves this increasing exposure.

All that I am saying is that the music of the other British composers I mentioned, and, indeed, the music of more conservative composers like William Wordsworth or Daniel Jones, does not deserve the almost total neglect that has befallen it.

I am all in favour of the revival of interest in the more "romantic" British composers in recent years, whether it be Cyril Scott or York Bowen(which doesn't particularly appeal to me) or the music of Stanley Bate and Richard Arnell(which certainly does!).

Mahler was a genius. His music is wonderful. But it needs little advocacy in this day and age. Every month three or four new versions of Mahler's symphonies hit the streets.
Folk collect literally dozens of versions of the same Mahler symphony and can discuss their respective merits till the proverbial cows not only come home but are tucked up in bed with their electric blankets

I am a musical explorer in the sense that I want to know if neglect is justified and the only way that question can be resolved is if the music of a neglected composer is given a decent performance, recorded and WE are allowed to make our own judgments on how good or how mediocre the music actually is.

(The trouble with this b*****y thread is that by the same I have finished writing-and I know that I am prolix in the extreme....9 new replies have been posted .
Tough. You are getting this anyway )

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

1. Actually genuinely sincerely true: my MusicWeb already review includes the line, "Nothing about the Gothic could be called "orgasmic," it's far too austere for that..."

2. Scriabin's La poeme. Also, I saw Janacek's Sinfonietta live with a Panamanian swimsuit model who described it as "orgasmic." She said this outdoors, and very very loudly. So it must be true.

1. True


2. La Poème induces a mental explosion in me, not a physical one...

Oh come on, Johan...don't be coy. We all know you've had some intimate late night experiences with Havergal's music 

Sarge

I did coin the word 'havergasm' a few days ago, but with me all is mental... True!

[Sergeant Rock]

Actually genuinely sincerely true: my MusicWeb already review includes the line, "Nothing about the Gothic could be called "orgasmic," it's far too austere for that..."

Wow...I'm shocked (startled? ...hehe, probably only Johan gets that  )  I've never thought of the Gothic as austere. To me it's the climactic end of Romanticism.

Sarge