Havergal Brian.

[Sergeant Rock]

I did coin the word 'havergasm' a few days ago, but with me all is mental... True!

You poor deprived soul 

Seriously, do Colin and I have to explain that our Brucknerian-induced orgasms are mental, not physical? 

Sarge

[Dundonnell]

Obviously you are missing one of the most important aspects of Bruckner. Almost alone among composers, he can induce orgasm in the receptive. Brian can too, e.g., the (literal) climax of the Gothic's Vivace, aka, the single greatest chord in classical music history 

Sarge

Hear, Hear

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Wow...I'm shocked (startled? ...hehe, probably only Johan gets that  )  I've never thought of the Gothic as austere. To me it's the climactic end of Romanticism.

Sarge

I think I know what 'our' Brian means - we may surrender to the power of Brian's music, but the music itself doesn't surrender.

[Dundonnell]

You poor deprived soul 

Seriously, do Colin and I have to explain that our Brucknerian-induced orgasms are mental, not physical? 

Sarge

Indeed

Surely that was obvious

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

You poor deprived soul 

Seriously, do Colin and I have to explain that our Brucknerian-induced orgasms are mental, not physical? 

Sarge

You got me wondering. 

[cilgwyn]

I totally agree with you Dundonnell. It's time music lovers were allowed to make up their own minds. At least things have changed a little now;but there are obviously allot of composers still left out in the cold,especially,the less immeadiately tuneful ones.

[Sergeant Rock]

You got me wondering. 

Well, I admit it's a close run thing 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

I totally agree with you Dundonnell. It's time music lovers were allowed to make up their own minds. At least things have changed a little now;but there are obviously allot of composers still left out in the cold,especially,the less immeadiately tuneful ones.

I don't think any of us here disagree with Colin. A recent forum thread asking what neglected composers we'd like to see programmed in concert attests to that.

Sarge

[Dundonnell]

.....AND, to clarify a reference I made earlier:

I don't "get nothing" from Debussy I love 'La Mer' and the 'Images' But some of Debussy's music does tend to make me a trifle soporific-'Prelude a l'apres de midi d'un faune' being an obvious example.

I don't MUCH care for music which washes over me like a warm bath of gentle reflection like Delius, or smothers me in honey or treacle  like Scriabin.

.....but explaining, let alone justifying one's own musical taste is an extraordinary exercise simply because it is such a personal aesthetic reaction. Other people react and respond to music or a painting in a completely different way. Their reaction is every bit as valid as mine.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I am a musical explorer in the sense that I want to know if neglect is justified and the only way that question can be resolved is if the music of a neglected composer is given a decent performance, recorded and WE are allowed to make our own judgments on how good or how mediocre the music actually is.

Agreed.

But with the audience for classical music aging, I hope that there will be enough people left for posthumous justice to be done to deserving composers... Pessimistic, I know. 

[Sergeant Rock]

Almost 2 a.m. here. I'm signing off. Good (and amusing) discussion this evening. Thanks, guys.

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Almost 2 a.m. here. I'm signing off. Good (and amusing) discussion this evening. Thanks, guys.

Sarge

Bye, Sarge. Yes, 'twas a good 'un. I'm signing off, too. I'm in the same time zone!

[Dundonnell]

Agreed.

But with the audience for classical music aging, I hope that there will be enough people left for posthumous justice to be done to deserving composers... Pessimistic, I know. 

Yes...and I am aging from a higher level already from you, Johan As I get older I get more and more impatient to hear neglected composers' music before it is too late.....

.....and on that grim note..since everyone seems to be off to bed.............

[Brian]

smothers me in honey or treacle  like Scriabin.

See, I don't understand this point of view - but then my first Scriabin was Sonatas 5 and 9!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Yes...and I am aging from a higher level already from you, Johan As I get older I get more and more impatient to hear neglected composers' music before it is too late.....

Oh well, still a long way to go for both us. The average age of a Brianite is 96.

[Dundonnell]

Oh well, still a long way to go for both us. The average age of a Brianite is 96.

Aye....right

[Dundonnell]

See, I don't understand this point of view - but then my first Scriabin was Sonatas 5 and 9!

Nor should you, Brian

I am not sure that it is necessary or even possible for someone else to understand one's response to a particular composer. If one is in the business of writing musical criticism for the public to read then that is a different matter but in such cases the writer has an obligation to bring a degree of objectivity to his analysis of a piece of music. In addition, the music critic will be listening to a composition with an ear to the musical technique used by the composer and to the construction of the piece.

I can acknowledge the absolute genius of a composer like Bach or Mozart without necessarily feeling that the music is touching my soul. The intellect can be engaged, the music can be appreciated, admired, even(I suppose) loved as a superb example of a composer who has an absolute mastery of his material. In terms of what he was trying to do, what he was intending to convey to the listener Scriabin's music may well be splendid, magisterial, call it what you will. But in terms of a listener's reaction to that music then we will all differ in what we are hearing and how we are responding. You will hear things and experience an emotional response which may be alien to mine.
Now, I will happily concede that one can change one's opinion. One can be shown things about a piece, encouraged to listen to it perhaps in a different way and that may be both enlightening and indeed inspiring.

....but so much depends on temperament and on mood. I USED to like Rachmaninov. I once loved the Symphonic Dances. But one can fall out of love with a composer and that has happened to me with Rachmaninov. What once appealed as sweeping, soaring romantic music I now find cloying and unattractive. I can still listen to and enjoy the 1st Symphony and 'The Bells'....but the rest,no, sadly.

.....oh no...TOO MUCH again

[cilgwyn]

My current cd (on headphones!),Walter Piston's Fifth,Seventh & Eighth Symphonies & Serenata is a case in point & might be more Dundonnell's cup of tea  (I'm sure he's heard it!) It's hard to believe that these symphonies are unavailable in more recent recordings. The most recent dates from 1975! Thoughtful,haunting,often sombre.The more energetic moments have a cleansing astringency. Not tuneful,yet approachable & some REALLY beautiful orchestration,including harps!. I find it VERY difficult to understand their neglect.One of the best Piston cd's I've heard.
It's a strange world!
On a more positive note these are very good performances & recordings,at least to my ears!
If it wasn't so late (early) I might just dash off to the Piston thread!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[mahler10th]

I am a wee bit disappointed to see that the new Brian downloads at $5 each are...well...James Loughran did a fine Holst Planets with the Halle, but these appear to be by school orchestras?  School orchestras?  I thought they would be by some better known orchestra, and I am in two minds as whether to buy them or not.  :-(

As for Bruckner orgasmic experiences, I might report that in 1996 I played both Bruckners 5th and 6th every night when my girlfriend was up at my Scarborough flat.  I can safely say that Bruckner quite assisted in matters which are best kept undercover.  For some reason, an obvious one, Bruckner 6 in particular remind me of that lass, that flat, those warm spring nights...

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I am a wee bit disappointed to see that the new Brian downloads at $5 each are...well...James Loughran did a fine Holst Planets with the Halle, but these appear to be by school orchestras?  School orchestras?  I thought they would be by some better known orchestra, and I am in two minds as whether to buy them or not.  :-(

As for Bruckner orgasmic experiences, I might report that in 1996 I played both Bruckners 5th and 6th every night when my girlfriend was up at my Scarborough flat.  I can safely say that Bruckner quite assisted in matters which are best kept undercover.  For some reason, an obvious one, Bruckner 6 in particular remind me of that lass, that flat, those warm spring nights...

If you buy any of the two, buy the one with Symphony No. 10. It was the first LP ever made of Brian's music, and the performance still stands, even after Brabbins' on Dutton. I am sure it will thrill you.


As for that lass - brave girl! 


The Mahler 6 would have been tragic.