Havergal Brian.

[John Whitmore]

I am a wee bit disappointed to see that the new Brian downloads at $5 each are...well...James Loughran did a fine Holst Planets with the Halle, but these appear to be by school orchestras?  School orchestras?  I thought they would be by some better known orchestra, and I am in two minds as whether to buy them or not.  :-(

As for Bruckner orgasmic experiences, I might report that in 1996 I played both Bruckners 5th and 6th every night when my girlfriend was up at my Scarborough flat.  I can safely say that Bruckner quite assisted in matters which are best kept undercover.  For some reason, an obvious one, Bruckner 6 in particular remind me of that lass, that flat, those warm spring nights...

Worry not. This is Tippett's LSSO. Similar to the National Youth in the 1970s and 80s and winner of the European Youth Orchestra competition in Salzburg in 1984. Don't expect the Vienna Phil but don't expect the sort of school orchestra that puts your teeth on edge. The coupling of 10/21 was described by one reviewer as the the most important issue of 1973 (Malcolm M). It also came 6th in the 1973 voting for UK classical disc of the year. In terms of sales it came 3rd. Search Youtube for The Unknown Warrior TV programme. It features the project and it will give you a feel for the recordings. Bob Simpson was inspirational at the rehearsals and sessions, helping to correct all the horrendous mistakes and page turns littering the score. If you click the sleeves on the Klassic Haus site there are substantial excerpts on MP3. Give it a go. End of advert.
PS Here's the Youtube link
http://youtu.be/9f7_wiFeDIU

[hbswebmaster]

All this talk about 'knicks'; have we descended to discussing underwear now?

I think that Johan's point about temperament is very valid, although if so, mine hasn't changed much. Love Bruckner, Simpson, Debussy, Ravel, Brian (of course), Tchaikovsky, Vaughan Williams... Rachmaninov also; the seccond symphony reduces me to a blubbering, gibbering wreck every time I hear it. I've played cymbals ('played' and 'cymbals' is NOT an oxymoron!!) in the Rach two several times, and last heard it live in concert with the LSO under Previn at the Barbican in 2002; what a gig that was - fantastic.

Havergasm - great term! There should be one for Old Anton too, because I'm sure that he represents it in his music. Although devout, he thought a lot about the opposite sex; Stephen Johnson records in his book 'Remembering Bruckner' that Old Anton used to wear swimming shorts to bed when he stayed with friends because of a nocturnal emission issue! And I'm sure that there are aspects of his music that are a conscious reflection of that, one of the most obvious examples to me being his regular use of the combination of acceleration, crescendo and rhythmic diminution before a huge statement. Not fun to play, maybe - I don't think he was fond of key signatures - but great to listen to!

[John Whitmore]

Having just read through last night's jibber jabber, is everyone still alive? Please sign in. I'm just about clinging on.

[John Whitmore]

All this talk about 'knicks'; have we descended to discussing underwear now?

I think that Johan's point about temperament is very valid, although if so, mine hasn't changed much. Love Bruckner, Simpson, Debussy, Ravel, Brian (of course), Tchaikovsky, Vaughan Williams... Rachmaninov also; the seccond symphony reduces me to a blubbering, gibbering wreck every time I hear it. I've played cymbals ('played' and 'cymbals' is NOT an oxymoron!!) in the Rach two several times, and last heard it live in concert with the LSO under Previn at the Barbican in 2002; what a gig that was - fantastic.

Havergasm - great term! There should be one for Old Anton too, because I'm sure that he represents it in his music. Although devout, he thought a lot about the opposite sex; Stephen Johnson records in his book 'Remembering Bruckner' that Old Anton used to wear swimming shorts to bed when he stayed with friends because of a nocturnal emission issue! And I'm sure that there are aspects of his music that are a conscious reflection of that, one of the most obvious examples to me being his regular use of the combination of acceleration, crescendo and rhythmic diminution before a huge statement. Not fun to play, maybe - I don't think he was fond of key signatures - but great to listen to!

This has encouraged me to get some Bruckner CDs off the shelf. Many thanks

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Still alive, John. There was much merriment and lively debate in the Happy Havergal.

@HBSwebmaster A pity Stephen Johnson's book is OOP, I 'd love to read it. In German we have the big biography of Göllerich and Auer, but that dates from the early 20th century and seems to be rather hagiographical (I have never read it). I can see the connection between Bruckner's many unrequited loves (for young girls) and some aspects of his musical style...

[Sergeant Rock]

Having just read through last night's jibber jabber, is everyone still alive?

Just barely. Damn good Riesling but I'm having trouble focusing this morning 

Sarge

[The new erato]

Just barely. Damn good Riesling but I'm having trouble focusing this morning 

Sarge

Just as well you stay away from the single malt, then.

[Sergeant Rock]

Just as well you stay away from the single malt, then.

Indeed    There are four bottles on a shelf near my desk (Laphroaig, Talisker, Glenmorangie, Ardbeg) but I wasn't tempted last night.

Oops...starting to jabber. Back to topic: Hey, how about them Brians?

Sarge

[Dundonnell]

Hmmmm

Barely alive and thoroughly disgruntled

Following the indeed most enjoyable discussion on here last night/early this morning I drove to an all-night garage for supplies and there my car decided not to move anywhere further. Having left my mobile phone at home, I had to walk back to my flat, phone emergency breakdown, wait for them to turn up and have my car brought back on the pickup truck.

It appears my clutch needs replacement

So I wasn't finished with life in all its vicissitudes until 4.30am .......and I will now have to shell out more money on the wretched thing

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

That's a sorry adventure to befall you, Colin... 

'Setting out on a great journey' is clearly something best left to symphonies.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Yesterday I downloaded the restorations of two pioneering Brian recordings. Every (older) Brianite knows them. One LP, with symphonies 10 & 21, was released by Unicorn in 1973, and the other, with Psalm 23, Symphony No. 22 and English Suite No. 5, 'Rustic Scenes', by CBS in 1974.


Now, after listening to them and comparing them (in the first case to the CD Unicorn-Kanchana later brought out, in the latter to an amateur digitisation), I am very very enthusiastic. The sound is really excellent. The official CD of 10 & 21 really didn't do the LSSO justice - the sound is too light and tinny, there isn't the weight I remembered from the LP. And that LP really had an enormous impact on my younger self. In the early '80s I was obsessed by Symphony No. 10, and that wasn't only because it is one of Brian's best and most gripping symphonies, but also, simply, because that band of very young people played this music amazingly well. As for the CBS LP, that never sounded very appealing in the first place. It was all rather harsh and shrill, with not enough warmth. Well, I don't know how restorer Curt Timmons did it, but his restoration is a great improvement on the original! The orchestra has enormous presence, there is the 'pressure of the basses', which Brian liked, and is a bit lacking in the technically better performance of English Suite No. 5 on the first Toccata volume of Brian's Orchestral Works. The same goes for the LSSO performance of No. 10 - Brabbins has given us a great reading on his Brian CD for Dutton, where many new details stand out. But - there are a few passages where I think the youngsters and James Loughran still have not been bettered.


So, to cut a long story short - I recommend these restorations unreservedly. At $5 a download, it won't burn a hole in your wallet... And the CD isn't too expensive either.


And no, I don't have shares in Klassic Haus!




http://klassichaus.us/Havergal-Brian.php

[John Whitmore]

I don't have shares in Klassic Haus either but plead guilty to sending them my LP transfers just to see if there was any interest. The 10/21 coupling sounds like the LP played on a good deck but without the clicks and pops - I don't hear any tinkering of the actual sound, just an overall cleaning up excercise. I agree with Johan about the thin nasty sounding Unicorn CD release. I always disliked the tinny CBS LP with it's squealing strings and dustbin lid percussion. I didn't hold out much hope for this sonic disaster but this now sounds much more like the Unicorn in warmth and depth. I don't find the playing on the CBS quite as convincing as on the 10/21 coupling , even though some critics thought otherwise, but it's still generally good and at least it's now a pleasant experience. The biggest surprise is Symphony 22 which is now deep and warm and the removal of background sludge has brought up some of the inner details that weren't there before. I wasn't charged for this. I'm delighted with the outcome and hope that Curt Timmons at least gets some success from his efforts. I'm now working on phase two - Tippett and Mathias.

[Dundonnell]

How does Heltay's performance of No.22 compare with Fredman's premiere performance?

[John Whitmore]

How does Heltay's performance of No.22 compare with Fredman's premiere performance?

Fredman's orchestral playing is superior of course, performance wise he tends to pull the music about a wee bit more and is more relaxed in places. Heltay is more direct and maybe has a bit more thrust. Not chalk and cheese but slighty different. Sound quality wise the CBS transfer is far superior to Fredman which is a shock when you consider how poor the LP pressings were. Psalm 23 is worth getting - more exciting than the Bostock despite, again, Bostock having professional forces - his version is small scale and has the feel of a routine run through about it. Hope this helps. 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

How does Heltay's performance of No.22 compare with Fredman's premiere performance?

Not much to add to John. Heltay's No. 22 has all the grimness you can wish for, Fredman's has more tenderness. I think the performances are equal in insight into the piece.

[John Whitmore]

Not much to add to John. Heltay's No. 22 has all the grimness you can wish for, Fredman's has more tenderness. I think the performances are equal in insight into the piece.

Love it. Grimness. Does this summarise HBs general style? Eric Pinkett called his style anti-Romantic.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Love it. Grimness. Does this summarise HBs general style? Eric Pinkett called his style anti-Romantic.

Thanks for the additional sentence...  Brian's music is tough, uncompromising, adventurous, dramatic. And there are many lyrical passages which are as romantic as they come. The way Brian's music is put together, though, prevents any wallowing - there simply isn't the time, he is always moving on.

[Dundonnell]

Thanks

With unexpected new expense forecast to repair my car I think it will have to be downloads of both the Loughran/Pinkett and the Heltay. I have both, of course, on LP but what I gather you are both saying is that the sound quality has been much improved for these cd transfers.

[John Whitmore]

Thanks

With unexpected new expense forecast to repair my car I think it will have to be downloads of both the Loughran/Pinkett and the Heltay. I have both, of course, on LP but what I gather you are both saying is that the sound quality has been much improved for these cd transfers.

I guarantee the sound is much better. I've made 2 CDs from the MP3 downloads - I don't like headphones or computer listening. My HiFi is decent and they sound really good. The Unicorn always did (vinyl version that is), the real surprise is the CBS.

[mahler10th]

I don't like headphones or computer listening.

I agree very much John.  Listening needs open ears and space for the music to project its form.  Headphones are ok for when one is outside or something, but nothing can beat a solid state sound system and a well recorded symphony - and an analogue volume control.   

Remember Brian is on @ 00.31 later!