Havergal Brian.

[Dundonnell]

Had a few of them in the LSSO. Didn't last long though. Reminds me of the line in the Round the Horne sketch about the Romans: "My name if Frigidous Maximus. The girls call me Frigid for short, but not for long".

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Dan Morgan on Musicweb today (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Jan12/DL_roundup_Jan12_2.htm):




Havergal BRIAN (1876-1972)

Symphony No. 1 in D minor 'The Gothic' (1919-1927) [106:07]
Susan Gritton (soprano), Christine Rice (mezzo), Peter Auty (tenor), Alastair Miles (bass), The Bach Choir, BBC National Chorus of Wales, Brighton Festival Chorus, Côr Caerdydd, CBSO Youth Chorus, Eltham College Boys' Choir, Huddersfield Choral Society, London Symphony Chorus, Southend Boys' and Girls' Choirs
BBC National Orchestra of Wales; BBC Concert Orchestra/Martyn Brabbins
rec. live, 17 July 2011, Royal Albert Hall, London
HYPERION CDA67971/2 [54:07 + 60:41] – from hyperion.co.uk (mp3 and lossless)

Internet message boards and forums were all aflutter when 'The Gothic' was announced for the 2011 BBC Proms. Old-timers became misty eyed remembering Sir Adrian Boult's legendary 1966 recording; some even dared hope this newcomer would get a commercial release, their initial enthusiasm dampened by the less than ideal sonics of the broadcast itself. As it happens, fortune smiled kindly on them and Hyperion issued a 'cleaned-up' version that's already garnered much praise here and elsewhere. So, to find out what all the fuss is about – and to stave off the January gloom – I downloaded the lossless flacs, fired up foobar and...

Good heavens, is this the same sprawling, empurpled racket I heard on that Ondrej Lenard recording all those years ago? The same piece that made me write off this musical maverick as a mere curiosity, his neglect well deserved? First impressions are highly favourable, Brabbins bringing fabulous momentum and clarity to the orchestral movements, the soloists and choirs singing with astonishing discipline and bite. And, even more impressive, the dynamic range – from the lowest organ notes to the highest choral cries – are captured in crisp, unfatiguing sound.

I wasn't in the Albert Hall that night, but even on the recording there's a palpable sense of a musical milestone in the making – rather like Jascha Horenstein's Mahler Eight, recorded at the same venue in 1959. The Prommers – usually a rowdy lot – are remarkably quiet, and I was particularly struck by the wide, detailed stereo spread, which gives a pretty good idea of the hall's acoustics. The distant choral contributions and burnished brass in the Te deum are especially atmospheric, the low brass and cracking timps forthright without sounding unnaturally prominent; indeed, Brabbins and his vast forces are focused and coherent throughout, Brian's more dissonant passages and complex textures very well articulated and recorded.

Funnily enough, my lasting impression of the Lenard recording – my first encounter with 'The Gothic' – left me the impression of an impossibly dense, sub-Ivesian mélange that was beyond all help and reason, and yet at every turn Brabbins' reading demonstrates the opposite, underlining just how clear- and far-sighted Brian's musical ideas really are; indeed, like most neglected works all 'The Gothic' really needs is unwavering advocacy – the work's army of devotees are true zealots – a conductor steady of hand and purpose, and a half-decent modern recording. The similarities to Horenstein's pioneering Mahler Eight are inescapable.

And, surprisingly for a work of such dimensions, I can't find any weak spots; the choral singing has splendid reach and raptness, and the soloists are a closely knit, well-balanced team. I'd forgotten just how beguiling Susan Gritton sounds, the bright-toned tenor Peter Auty especially transported in the last movement. Inevitably, the noise floor seems to rise in the quiet passages, but such is the air of concentration on stage and in the hall that matters not a jot.

But, more than anything, it's the long, unbroken narrative that impresses – Mahler Eight again – the sense of a disparate collection of movements welded seamlessly into a cogent, persuasive whole. Brabbins is keenly aware of the symphony's peaks and valleys, climaxes judiciously scaled; and who else but Brian would dare to include a jaunty woodwind tune in the finale, a disarming little idée fixe that sits comfortably in this radiant but beautifully restrained apotheosis. The sustained applause – all eight minutes and forty seconds of it – is a performance in itself, the Prommers clearly overwhelmed by this thrilling spectacle.

One of the joys of reviewing is the chance to revisit and re-evaluate works that, for one reason or another, have failed to gel first time round. Suk's Asrael eluded me until I heard the recent BIS recording, but as compelling as that is I had to admit it was not a Damascene conversion. This performance of 'The Gothic' most certainly is.

[Dundonnell]

Exactly

Morgan does not try to read into the music too deeply at this stage, he is responding as one should, in at least the initial stages, to a performance which has won him round to a work he previously found difficult to come to terms with.

This is a 'good review'...not in the sense that Morgan has liked what he has heard(although that in itself is, of course, delightful ) but in the sense that he is not falling into what seems to me to be the besetting sin of others of over-intellectualising the music

Now..some may feel offended by that remark There are those amongst us who have written what amounts to short books about the Gothic if one added all their posts together.
Yes-you know who you are

I am NOT directing my criticism at you. HONEST If you know the work, have lived with it then be all means subject it to the detailed musical analysis it certainly merits.
If you feel that that sort of analysis really helps your appreciation of a work you are less familiar with...AGAIN, I have no problem with such an analytical process.

But, it seems to me, that the problem with Kenneth Woods and others is that in attempting to analyse the structure of the Gothic they just succeed in tying themselves in knots by comparing and contrasting it with Beethoven, Berlioz, Mahler, the conventional notion of what a "Symphony" should be or should be constructed.

This 'over-intellectualisation' is artistic folly in my opinion if it over-rides a visceral, emotional response.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

This 'over-intellectualisation' is artistic folly in my opinion if it over-rides a visceral, emotional response.

Agreed. The experience must come first, then the analysis, if you are thus inclined (and some of us on this thread, yes, are fascinated by how Brian's music is put together and also have (some) technical knowledge, whether as a musician, a composer, or, for that matter, a music-obsessed writer...).

[Florestan]

Believe me or not but yesterday night I dreamt I was attending a performance of the Gothic; in Istanbul of all places and in a gothic church no less; after it was over (the symphony, not the dream) I was in someone's room stealing some CDs with other Brian music (can't remember what). Then I awoke. Reality is I have never heard the Gothic. Any idea what this dream might mean? 

EDIT: typo corrected.

[Sergeant Rock]

Any idea what this dream might mean? 

It's a dream about sex, of course. See our earlier discussion in this thread about the orgasm the Gothic induces in some listeners 

Sarge

[Florestan]

It's a dream about sex, of course. See our earlier discussion in this thread about the orgasm the Gothic induces in some listeners 

Sarge

Thank you, Mr. Freud. Now I can hardly wait for the opinion of Mr. Jung. 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Carl Jung says: the dream is archetypal. It conflates two Brians - Brian Reinhart, of Turkish descent, and Havergal Brian, the eponymous composer of this thread. The dream betokens an imminent conversion to Brianity. I suggest the rapid purchase of the Hyperion 'Gothic' to forestall more febrile nocturnal explosions.

[John Whitmore]

Carl Jung says: the dream is archetypal. It conflates two Brians - Brian Reinhart, of Turkish descent, and Havergal Brian, the eponymous composer of this thread. The dream betokens an imminent conversion to Brianity. I suggest the rapid purchase of the Hyperion 'Gothic' to forestall more febrile nocturnal explosions.

Here we go. More Bruckner........

[Florestan]

Carl Jung says: the dream is archetypal. It conflates two Brians - Brian Reinhart, of Turkish descent, and Havergal Brian, the eponymous composer of this thread. The dream betokens an imminent conversion to Brianity. I suggest the rapid purchase of the Hyperion 'Gothic' to forestall more febrile nocturnal explosions.

Thank you too, Mr. Jung. 

[calyptorhynchus]

Hi guys

Just wanted to add my voice to the thread. I am a long-time HB fan, I first heard the English Suite No.5 in a BBC Radio 3 broadcast in the 1980s and was mesmerised (I agree that the recent recording of this work is a little too dry and perfunctory).

I think that Brian is one of the very greatest of composers because he does two things supremely well, and does them simultaneously. The first is that he provides a very strong sense of musical flow in the way that only the greatest of composers like Byrd, Haydn, Mozart, Sibelius, Nielsen, Simpson can. You feel listening to Brian like you are travelling on a river and are drawn inexorably onwards. But, Brian also provides a very strong sense of fragmentariness and the broken, incomplete nature of consciousness, where beautiful reverie is mixed with anger, frustration, boredom, fear &c. And the miracle is that both of these processes are happening at the same time, which is why his music is poignant and inspiriting simultaneously.

I've been reading this thread today and got about 50 pages in, but I don't have time to do this really, and I suspect that soon after page 50 you're all going to start discussing the Proms performance at great length (love the Gothic, love the later Symphonies even more).

I did have a selfish motive in reading through, to try to find mp3s of broadcasts and unavailable recordings that people had posted. I downloaded the Symphony 5, which I'll listen to, and three out of four movements of Symphony 21 (J. Z. Herrenberg could you fix the second movement on mediafire please :-) ? )

But I was wondering if anyone could link to any more; I'd be particualrly interested in Symphony 22 and Mackerras's broadcast of 27.

cheers

[calyptorhynchus]

Also wanted to say I agree with everyone here who has praised Malcolm MacDonald's volumes. They are very wonderful musical criticism and the best advocacy for Brian there can be. The passage of his which I think best sums up Brian is Vol 3 p 202:

Brian's Tenth [Symphony] embodies particularly clearly the lesson which his discontinuities, in their various ways, all seem designed to teach: that no one attitude, or viewpoint, or world-picture, is ever enough—that certainty, of anything, is illusory, and in any case ultimately valueless, because it limits the potential of the mind. His music, though in many places 'mystical' in that it shows awareness of mysteries, perhaps even including the mysteries of religion, is therefore also in the most exact sense of the term profoundly agnostic. Thence, presumably, stems the naggingly 'unfinal' quality of his codas; thence, no doubt, stemmed his astonishing capacity for self-renewal.

[Dundonnell]

Welcome

....and two very interesting and valuable contributions to the Brian discussion

For a vast tranche of HB's music all available for Download you should also join the 'Unsung Composers' Forum from which, if you are a member, you can download the works to which you refer

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Yes, welcome from me too, Calyptorhynchus! As Colin says, there are many (Brian) treasures at Unsung Composers. Oh, and if you are interested in some great (and cheap) restorations of the two first Brian LPs, look here: http://klassichaus.us/

In the meantime, here is the second movement of No. 21:


http://www.mediafire.com/?551me9l5091p277


And here is Symphony No. 27:



http://www.mediafire.com/?nnmaljcwk1t


http://www.mediafire.com/?wxb3i1xnalj


http://www.mediafire.com/?tfy0b1mi51b


Johan

[John Whitmore]

Yes, welcome from me too, Calyptorhynchus! As Colin says, there are many (Brian) treasures at Unsung Composers. Oh, and if you are interested in some great (and cheap) restorations of the two first Brian LPs, look here: http://klassichaus.us/In the meantime, here is the second movement of No. 21:

http://www.mediafire.com/?551me9l5091p277


And here is Symphony No. 27:



http://www.mediafire.com/?nnmaljcwk1t


http://www.mediafire.com/?wxb3i1xnalj


http://www.mediafire.com/?tfy0b1mi51b


Johan

I urge you strongly to go to the Klassichaus link that Johan has posted. These are the 2 LSSO LPs (Symphs 10,21,22, Psalm 23 and English Suite No.5) from the 1970s. The restorations are superb, much better than my attempts (including the 21st that Johan has given you a link to). These are a snip at $5. You will love them. Honest. Wecome to the HB madhouse. Please don't mention Bruckner or Khachaturian or we will not remain friends

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Welcome to the HB madhouse. Please don't mention Bruckner or Khachaturian or we will not remain friends

Love the bedside manner. 

[hbswebmaster]

Hi calyptorhynchus, and welcome! Being an Aussie, did you get to the Brisbane Gothic in December 2010?

Perhaps I could tempt you to join the Havergal Brian Society? We too are a friendly lot. www.havergalbrian.org

Enough of the adverts!

[John Whitmore]

Welcome

....and two very interesting and valuable contributions to the Brian discussion

For a vast tranche of HB's music all available for Download you should also join the 'Unsung Composers' Forum from which, if you are a member, you can download the works to which you refer

I've tried to find this Unsung Composers forum. There's not a download to be found. What's the link to the downloads?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

You have to join first, John. Only then is it possible to download...


http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php

[calyptorhynchus]

Hi everyone

Thanks for the links, I have downloaded them and bought and downloaded the second LSSO disk restoration. Three new HB symphonies to listen to, what a treat! pity I have to work today.

Also investigating the Unsung composers site.

Even though I'm in Australia I didn't go to the Brisbane Gothic firstly because I couldn't afford to (I have other expensive hobbies like birdwatching and children) and secondly because I don't actually like orchestral concerts. I find them distracting and the sound is never as good as a recording :-) I grew up listening to records and the radio and have only ever been to a few concerts and found them too expensive and not very satisfying.

My musical tastes were thoroughly conditioned by the fact that I started listening to BBC Radio 3 (in the UK, I moved to Aus in the 1990s) in about 1978, just when Robert Simpson was in full flight with talks on Bruckner and Nielsen and so I lapped these up and then when Hyperion started releasing disks of the Simpson Symphonies and String Quartets in the late 80s and early 90s I was in heaven. I listened to real music before I listened to Romantic music so never got a taste for the latter. One of the earliest records I bought was Bruckner 7, and after that, what do you make of Brahms and all the other fluff? To prefer that sort of music is like someone splashing around in the kitchen sink when they could go and watch the ocean.

I had a similar experience  recently when I bought the CPO Pettersson series. I'd read about these symphonies, about how they were harsh and difficult and unapproachable, and when I listened to them I thought "what's all the fuss about, this is 10/10 music, but there's nothing difficult about it, it's just real music, only people who have never heard real music would have problems with it."

Same with Brian, as soon as I heard the English Suite No.5 and other works I knew, here was a real composer, his music was not so much "music", as life and experience and thought (and good experience and thought) embodied in music.

One of my bugbears in Australia is the Government-run Classic FM station, I think that this is modelled on the UK station of the same name.
About a decade ago I was speaking to a musically-knowledgeable person who opined that 'Classic FM concentrates largely on C19 orchestral and vocal schmalz'. At the time I agreed with him on this, but now would probably modify his view and say that Classic FM these days mainly concentrates on C19 orchestral and vocal schmalz, but also seeks out musical schmalz of all ages. So, for example, Classic FM now plays a lot of baroque operatic arias and 'world music' (which to me sounds like music that isn't good enough to be folk music). How they manage to find bad Baroque music is beyond me, but they do.

I think that if it played good music it could attract many more people to classical music and could make people's lives happier. As it is it seems its only function is to cement in the minds of its listeners a particular type of sentimentality. I have tried to be a thorn in the side of Classic FM for some time.

:-)

Anyway, sorry to have mentioned Bruckner, other composers I like: Lute Music (Renaissance and later, Da Milano , Dowland, Weiss, Gaultier, de Visee &c), viol music (English school (consorts), French School, St Colombe &c), Medieval and Renaissance polyphony, Bach, Bartok, Byrd, Dittersdorf, Dunstaple, Finzi, Haydn, Holmboe, Howells, Ives, Janacek, Mahler, David Matthews, Moeran, Mozart, Norgard, Purcell, Rautaavara, Saygun, Sculthorpe, Sibelius, Tippett, Vanhal, Vaughan Williams, Walton and many others.

Calyptorhynchus is the genus name for the Black-Cockatoos.

cheers all