Havergal Brian.

[Hattoff]

Yup, that's the one.

[cilgwyn]

I love the ending of No.4 because it means the thing is about to come to an end....

Actually,I always think that's the best bit & not JUST because it's over! I remember on my old D90 cassette (which I still have) the side turn was,annoyingly, just BEFORE that bit. At any rate,I think if I had to pick Brians worst symphony,No 4 would be it! It's too loud & unsubtle. Brian could do allot better!
  Felicity Palmer deserved a medal for her singing! (I think she got something later,but not,specifically, for that)

Incidentally,the HBS website lists a 1967 bbc broadcast with Honor Sheppard, conducted by Maurice Handford!

Perhaps,I should have said weakest! But Brian's Second certainly comes in as another contender. I used to play it allot when I was young. I do quite like some of it & the bleak, sombre atmosphere of the piece IS rather impressive." Man in his cosmic loneliness!" If only Brian could have pulled it together. I wonder why it is such a disappointment after No 1?
No 3 is a definate improvement (a personal favourite),then No 4! After that,it gets ALLOT better!

[snyprrr]

Amazing. The Brian Thread is unassailable??? sigh

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Quote from: snyprrr on Today at 14:14:36

Amazing. The Brian Thread is unassailable??? sigh



You just added to it... 


(History is driven by motivated minorities.)

[cilgwyn]

Actually,I always think that's the best bit & not JUST because it's over! I remember on my old D90 cassette (which I still have) the side turn was,annoyingly, just BEFORE that bit. At any rate,I think if I had to pick Brians worst symphony,No 4 would be it! It's too loud & unsubtle. Brian could do allot better!
  Felicity Palmer deserved a medal for her singing! (I think she got something later,but not,specifically, for that)

Incidentally,the HBS website lists a 1967 bbc broadcast with Honor Sheppard, conducted by Maurice Handford!

Perhaps,I should have said weakest! But Brian's Second certainly comes in as another contender. I used to play it allot when I was young. I do quite like some of it & the bleak, sombre atmosphere of the piece IS rather impressive." Man in his cosmic loneliness!" If only Brian could have pulled it together. I wonder why it is such a disappointment after No 1?
No 3 is a definate improvement (a personal favourite),then No 4! After that,it gets ALLOT better!

Actually,I was just thinking. What do I know?! Das Siegeslied & the Second Symphony could be shattering masterpieces,for all I know!
  I mean.let's face it,I couldn't even log into my own GMG account yesterday!

Man in his cosmic loneliness,eh?!

[cilgwyn]

And now I hear that Cilgwyn 2 could be going on an extended vacation!!!

[Karl Henning]

An allusion to Robt Sheckley, "The Robot Who Looked Like Me"?

[cilgwyn]

By dinasman at 2012-03-22
Just when you needed a shave?!

Actually,I hadn't heard of it,but you reminded me that one of my favourite books as a teenager was Robert Sheckley's 'Immortality Inc'.
Now only available in sad looking, tattered s/h copies. It was made into a terrible film with Mick Jagger.
Edmund Cooper's 'The Overman Culture' was another one;back in the days when Sax Rohmer's Fu Manchu books & Rider Haggard gleamed on the shelves of public libraries in nice,big,hardback editions!

They even had Havergal Brian!

The Marx brothers could have been Robert Sheckley?!!!
All three (four?) of them?!!!

[cilgwyn]

And now a post about Havergal Brian!
The cd-r of 17-19. Now they are really starting to 'click' with me. An untechnical term,I know,but that's the moment when I have  difficulty taking them off! Seventeen has allot in common with it's predecessor. It shares a very similar sound world. It could almost be an off shoot. Anyway,now I'm beginning to get to grips with this one the stylistic change/s that occurs with No18 should become clearer.
  Actually,I think I prefer this one to No 16,marginally. Not quite sure yet,as my download of No 16 failed & I can't go back and listen to it. It ends after appproximately 10 minutes!

Some of these off air performances seem so good I wonder how much they could actually be improved upon by any new recordings,except in terms of sound quality,of course? Not that I don't want to hear them in state of the art sound,of course!

Thirteen & fourteen please,Dutton?!!!




 

[cilgwyn]

Back on the cd-r of 10-12,now!
Very addictive!

Nice to hear the twelfth in the Newstone,performance;although,I'm pretty sure I must have had this on cassette,once (I had them all!). This performance has more atmosphere than the Marco polo. It is also,thankfully,free from that wierd,boxy sounding,Marco Polo acoustic.
  The Eleventh is far preferable to the Naxos. It's just more lively and has more atmosphere. I'm afraid I can't really put it much more technically than that! At least,not so soon after that sausage & bean hotpot!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Re 17 - I play it far more often than 16. I like the freedom and colour of this work. 16 'looks' more metallic and grey...

[cilgwyn]

Yes,definatelyl! They have so many similarities,yet No 17 is more wide ranging. No 16 is less likable in some ways. More steely & remote. Not that I DON'T like No 16,of course;but I'm beginning to wonder whether Lyrita's famous Lp should have been 6 & 17,instead of,6 & 16?! But then again,maybe two 6's on an Lp cover look better than one?
I always felt Lyrita's odd abstract style cover 'art' went particularly well with No 16. Of course,it's a landscape now! Brian's dazzling use of the orchestra made me think of think of kaleidoscopes & mosaics. Almost like an abstract painting itself,in sound!
Either way,it was better than some of those peculiar Bax sleeves (not the Tintagel one,however,I liked that! I used to prop it up! )

[cilgwyn]

I've just found a complete No 16 on my external drive & burned it to a cdr of Syms 16-18!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Good for you!


Re 16 and 17 again: 16 is stringent, abstract and severe (yes, that original cover art captured that perfectly), 17 freer, warmer, though the final part is very wild despite its waltz-rhythm, a sort of Brianic La valse.

[cilgwyn]

Regarding 6 & 16 again. I have heard some people (not you) say that they liked the Sinfonia tragica,but weren't so keen on it's companion. As far as I can recall,even though I had more difficulties with the later symphonies, I played No 16 & enjoyed it every bit as much as No 16. At the time their sound world seemed to seemed to share some similarities despite the fact that they are chronologically 12 years apart & No 16 is of course in Brian's later more elliptical style. Also,of course they are both one movement symphonies. No 17 shares a similar soundworld & would have made a good companion,but it's in three movements,which might have clashed!
  I have now read on the HBS site,that the Sinfonia Tragica was only accepted into the symphonic canon,in 1967! So in 1966,the year of the Boult Gothic, it was still just an orchestral prelude?


 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The Tragica just stood outside the canon as 'a concert work' (MM's word, just checked). As for it being a one-movement symphony, it's tripartite though continuous, just like No. 17. Even in No. 16, which is so seamless, you can find vestiges of a very compressed and telescoped four-movement symphony...

[cilgwyn]

Ooops! I got confused looking at the HBS site. It is also one of the penalties of listening with these cordless headphones. It sounds a poor excuse,I know .but I'm not always in the vicinity of the cd player. I tend to be doing things while I'm listening,or in another room, & every now and again I check to see where I am! Eighteen's the next one with separate movements!
Seventeen wouldn't have clashed!

[cilgwyn]

So 6 & 17 are perhaps closer to one another,structurally,in some ways,than 6 & 16?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Erm... no. No. 6 is very clear-cut, there are three clearly-marked spans. No. 17, come to think of it, has four inter-connected parts, and this _does_ connect it with its predecessor. Slow intro, allegro, curtailed slow movement, a rondo-like segment as a sort of scherzo and a finale with violent coda... (I should listen to it!)

[Dundonnell]

If you two gentlemen could "drag yourselves away" from HB for a few seconds at least you will see that I have posted about the 60 complete catalogues I have now compiled and put up online for British Composers' Orchestral and Choral Music.

HB himself is NOT one of the first 60 This is NOT a reflection of either my valuation of Brian's music nor his current popular profile. I considered however that-for the time being at least-I should leave him out because the HB website is, of course, perfectly suited to those who needed the necessary information.

Brian will however feature in the second (much shorter ) series of British composers who will be added in a few weeks or so.

I felt that I owed you this explanation of what, otherwise, you might take as some sort of deliberate slight on the old boy