Havergal Brian.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Hi, Colin! Thanks for bumping the dormant Brian thread (all the Brianites are busy, I think, me included). I downloaded both CDs, so I don't know what you are looking at... There were some newspaper cuttings included (made by John) and a scan of the original LP sleeve note, which was rather illegible, too... You could write to Curt, perhaps he can help you.


KlassicHaus@cox.net

[John Whitmore]

Over a week since anybody has posted on this thread As a result it had drifted down to Page 3   So...to rectify that-

I received this morning through the post the cd versions of the Leicestershire Schools Symphony Orchestra's recordings of the 10th, 21st and 22nd symphonies. I shall add my thanks to John Whitmore for his involvement in this project

However-and I know this has already been commented on but I can now add my voice from first-hand knowledge-the cd booklet notes are quite outrageous How anybody can be expected to read such miniscule type is quite beyond me. It will require a magnifying glass (I think that I have one somewhere in the attic ). What can Curt Timmons have been thinking of If the issue was cost, as I imagine it must have been, then ditch the notes altogether or, better still, the ideal solution: put them up as a downloadable pdf on the website rather than this 

I only have the downloads which included artwork for front cover and the tray insert. Everything on 10/21 is very readable. 22/Psalm 23 does have a bottom paragraph showing recording details in size 8 print. I can read it but that's not the issue. Is this paragraph the problem? I have to take blame for this because I signed it off. Please clarify. Also, did you get all the downloads of my press cuttings etc? The bundle includes my article in the HBS newsletter. I will send them if you haven't got them. Please get back to me - do you like the actual CDs?

[Dundonnell]

Since it was Havergal Brian I decided to splash out on the actual cds themselves rather than get the downloads. The cds were sent-very promptly, I might add, from an address in Oklahoma City.

The entire back page of the original LP is squeezed onto around two-thirds of the back of a single sheet cd cover page. I can assure you that the print is both faded and so minute as to be totally unreadable. I need glasses for long-sight but not to read text. I cannot read the notes...simple as. All that came through the post were the two cds and a packing slip receipt. There is no other documentation.

[John Whitmore]

Since it was Havergal Brian I decided to splash out on the actual cds themselves rather than get the downloads. The cds were sent-very promptly, I might add, from an address in Oklahoma City.

The entire back page of the original LP is squeezed onto around two-thirds of the back of a single sheet cd cover page. I can assure you that the print is both faded and so minute as to be totally unreadable. I need glasses for long-sight but not to read text. I cannot read the notes...simple as. All that came through the post were the two cds and a packing slip receipt. There is no other documentation.

OK. This really shouldn't have been included. I will contact Curt. I've just made pdfs pof both sleeves. Send me an email so that I have your address and I will get them to you. I will also include the bundle of reviews and documents.

[Dundonnell]

Thanks, John.  Will do

[John Whitmore]

Thanks, John.  Will do

Hi Colin. It's your email address I need.

[Dundonnell]

Setting aside the issue of the cd presentation for the time being, you asked, John, what I thought of the cds themselves.

I listened to both while driving to and from Edinburgh this evening. I found the experience of listening to the music again actually rather moving. The performance by the Leicestershire Schools Symphony Orchestra, particularly of Symphonies Nos. 10 and 21, is quite simply staggering. Brian is difficult enough for any orchestra to tackle but for an orchestra of school kids   Wow The commitment, the energy, the enthusiasm, the attack....I would not have known that I was not listening to a professional orchestra. The LSSO at that time must have been one of the finest school orchestras in the world. The brass, especially, are absolutely magnificent. The very ending of No.21 with that thunderous orchestral fortissimo, followed by the hammering timpani is mind-blowing.

I cannot adequately express my delight and my unqualified admiration for the teenagers involved. It just goes to show how youthful enthusiasm and dedication can sometimes prove more satisfying than the more obviously expected professionalism of an adult orchestra.

I still struggle a bit to come to terms with the terse brevity of No.22 but Psalm 23 is so much better than in the Bostock recording for Classico. Nor should one forget the conducting of Loughran, Pinkett and Heltay. That must have been when Loughran was at his peak. What ever happened to that man's later career

Huge thumbs up

[cilgwyn]

Since it was Havergal Brian I decided to splash out on the actual cds themselves rather than get the downloads. The cds were sent-very promptly, I might add, from an address in Oklahoma City.

The entire back page of the original LP is squeezed onto around two-thirds of the back of a single sheet cd cover page. I can assure you that the print is both faded and so minute as to be totally unreadable. I need glasses for long-sight but not to read text. I cannot read the notes...simple as. All that came through the post were the two cds and a packing slip receipt. There is no other documentation.

I don't want to upset the apple cart,here;but I must admit I found the notes perfectly legible using my electron microscope!

[cilgwyn]

Actually,I got the download,Dundonnell!
As to the performances of 10 & 21. Marvellous! It takes me right back!
If only I was a teenager,again!

[John Whitmore]

I don't want to upset the apple cart,here;but I must admit I found the notes perfectly legible using my electron microscope!

Good tip.Do Aldi sell them? I'll call in later.

[John Whitmore]

Setting aside the issue of the cd presentation for the time being, you asked, John, what I thought of the cds themselves.

I listened to both while driving to and from Edinburgh this evening. I found the experience of listening to the music again actually rather moving. The performance by the Leicestershire Schools Symphony Orchestra, particularly of Symphonies Nos. 10 and 21, is quite simply staggering. Brian is difficult enough for any orchestra to tackle but for an orchestra of school kids   Wow The commitment, the energy, the enthusiasm, the attack....I would not have known that I was not listening to a professional orchestra. The LSSO at that time must have been one of the finest school orchestras in the world. The brass, especially, are absolutely magnificent. The very ending of No.21 with that thunderous orchestral fortissimo, followed by the hammering timpani is mind-blowing.

I cannot adequately express my delight and my unqualified admiration for the teenagers involved. It just goes to show how youthful enthusiasm and dedication can sometimes prove more satisfying than the more obviously expected professionalism of an adult orchestra.

I still struggle a bit to come to terms with the terse brevity of No.22 but Psalm 23 is so much better than in the Bostock recording for Classico. Nor should one forget the conducting of Loughran, Pinkett and Heltay. That must have been when Loughran was at his peak. What ever happened to that man's later career

Huge thumbs up

Nice review Delighted you like the discs. Loughran was doing really well at one point in his career but when he moved from Scotland to Manchester the impetus seemed to drain away. I wonder if following Barbirolli was too much of a task? The Halle declined for quite a time and Loughran just disappeared from view. Very strange. On the subject of conductors, Eric Pinkett was the key man in all of this. He did all the weekly rehearsals, got the orchestra up to a certain standard so that all the notes (or most of them) were in place for visiting conductors. The likes of Tippett, Bliss, Previn and Heltay would just add their own interpretative touches in a single rehearsal. Eric also had to replace 30 of the 110 players every September as kids left school. This wasn't a youth orchestra, it was a schools orchestra. Eric couldn't even draw on the City of Leicester for players - this was a shire orchestra. The City had its own council, education department and youth orchestra. Most of us were from Loughborough, Hinckley, Wigston, Melton Mowbray and Ashby de la Zouch. I really don't know how he reached such a standard. Here we are in 2012 - last month the council made all the peripatetic music teachers in Leicestershire redundant and sold off the home base of the LSSO. The orchestra won't survive and if it does the standard will plummet. The peak of the mid 80s (Yes, it improved even further from what you hear on the HB LPs) seems light years away. I'm thankful that Eric and Michael Tippett were around to change my life. All very sad

[John Whitmore]

Further to the last few emails, I've produced a pdf file containing all my LSSO Brian press articles. reviews, LP cover scans etc. The pdf can be downloaded from here if anyone is interested. Thanks to Colin aka Dundonnell for giving me the idea.
http://www.4shared.com/office/OlmSSfeg/Havergal_Brian_Information.html

[Dundonnell]

Taking over the Halle from Barbirolli was always going to be a poisoned chalice given the latter's reputation. As you say, the Halle does seem to have gone downhill until their recent revival under Mark Elder. Loughran never got the sort of recording opportunities he might have expected and his career just seems to have gone at best sideways-appointments in Bamberg and Aarhus.

Pinkett must have been both a superb organiser and motivator. What a shame he seems to have died relatively early and what a tragedy that the orchestra is now not better supported

[John Whitmore]

Setting aside the issue of the cd presentation for the time being, you asked, John, what I thought of the cds themselves.

I listened to both while driving to and from Edinburgh this evening. I found the experience of listening to the music again actually rather moving. The performance by the Leicestershire Schools Symphony Orchestra, particularly of Symphonies Nos. 10 and 21, is quite simply staggering. Brian is difficult enough for any orchestra to tackle but for an orchestra of school kids   Wow The commitment, the energy, the enthusiasm, the attack....I would not have known that I was not listening to a professional orchestra. The LSSO at that time must have been one of the finest school orchestras in the world. The brass, especially, are absolutely magnificent. The very ending of No.21 with that thunderous orchestral fortissimo, followed by the hammering timpani is mind-blowing.

I cannot adequately express my delight and my unqualified admiration for the teenagers involved. It just goes to show how youthful enthusiasm and dedication can sometimes prove more satisfying than the more obviously expected professionalism of an adult orchestra.

I still struggle a bit to come to terms with the terse brevity of No.22 but Psalm 23 is so much better than in the Bostock recording for Classico. Nor should one forget the conducting of Loughran, Pinkett and Heltay. That must have been when Loughran was at his peak. What ever happened to that man's later career

Huge thumbs up

I just dug this out. This is the orchestra at its highest peak of all time in 1984, playing in the Sofiensalle in Vienna. This was a competition and they were crowned the best youth orchestra in Europe. The class of 1972 were nowhere near this. Intonation is better, phrasing is more professional and the strings have come on leaps and bounds. To cap it all, this isn't bang crash music. It's Haydn. Not something you should ever normally give to kids because it's so exposed and every note tells but this is splendid. Brian and Tippett are a piece of cake compared to the level required to play this:
http://www.4shared.com/mp3/hsJgnNyE/LSSO_Haydn_104.html

[Sergeant Rock]

I just dug this out. This is the orchestra at its highest peak of all time in 1984, playing in the Sofiensalle in Vienna. This was a competition and they were crowned the best youth orchestra in Europe. The class of 1972 were nowhere near this. Intonation is better, phrasing is more professional and the strings have come on leaps and bounds. To cap it all, this isn't bang crash music. It's Haydn. Not something you should ever normally give to kids because it's so exposed and every note tells but this is splendid. Brian and Tippett are a piece of cake compared to the level required to play this:
http://www.4shared.com/mp3/hsJgnNyE/LSSO_Haydn_104.html

What a great way to "merge" the two most popular composers (by post count) in the Composer board  Haydnistas and Brianites rule! 

Sarge

[snyprrr]

Over 200 Pages later and they're STILL talking about that one recording!!

[John Whitmore]

Over 200 Pages later and they're STILL talking about that one recording!!

What's wrong with that? There are loads of recordings mentioned on here not just this one. Have you heard any of 'em? Any positive input about any of 'em?

[cilgwyn]

The disturbingly vast breadth of range & music & subject matter discussed on this thread is one of the things I like about it!  At times,whole reams of posts go by,without even a mention of a certain composer of an extremely large symphony & thirty one others!

By the way snyprrr,I think I'm going to have another dose of Henry Cowell,soon!

Finally,reading about Beecham & listening to some of his recordings,I noticed that John is in good company in his dislike of Bruckner. Beecham describing him as a 'hobble-de-hoy','with no style at all'. I hope I got that Beecham quote right,because as Dundonnell will know,I'm no good at them!

My ASV cd of Khatchaturian is currently hovering next to a boxfull destined for the charity shop. Shall I put it in,so Khatchaturian's music can make some money for a good cause?!!! Vote Now!!!!

Back to Brian!

[John Whitmore]

The disturbingly vast breadth of range & music & subject matter discussed on this thread is one of the things I like about it!  At times,whole reams of posts go by,without even a mention of a certain composer of an extremely large symphony & thirty one others!

By the way snyprrr,I think I'm going to have another dose of Henry Cowell,soon!

Finally,reading about Beecham & listening to some of his recordings,I noticed that John is in good company in his dislike of Bruckner. Beecham describing him as a 'hobble-de-hoy','with no style at all'. I hope I got that Beecham quote right,because as Dundonnell will know,I'm no good at them!

My ASV cd of Khatchaturian is currently hovering next to a boxfull destined for the charity shop. Shall I put it in,so Khatchaturian's music can make some money for a good cause?!!! Vote Now!!!!

Back to Brian!

Poor old charity shop. It's not in the least bit charitable lumbering them with Kahachaturian. I have nothing to say about Bruckner but Beecham was very astute wasn't he?

[cilgwyn]

Beecham had some eccentric views about composers,but,in a way,much as I love Bach & Beethoven (for example) it is quite refreshing.in a funny kind of way, to hear someone of his significance making disparaging remarks about the aknowledged greats,especially when it's done in such an amusing way. What a difference to some of the witless wonders of today.I'm not sure whether he would have liked Havergal Brian (anyone know?),but even if he didn't I'm sure his 'put down' would have been genuinely funny!
  Which reminds me of two things. In my current passion for later Beecham,I have just bought a s/h copy of Beecham's 50's recordings of Delius's Eventyr,Over the hills & faraway,North Country Sketches & Koanga (closing scene) on Sony,amongst others!
  Secondly,back to Brian! After pre-ordering the new Mark Stone cd of Brian's songs from HMV,I cancelled my order,after finding it cheaper on Amazon. When you cancel,HMV ask you (optional) why you cancelled. I 'checked' the drop down box saying I had 'found it cheaper. When I looked at HMV again they had lowered their price,so now my pre-order is back with HMV!