Havergal Brian.

[John Whitmore]

Although the Brisbane and Proms performances of The Gothic were major achievements, I still think that HB's reputation suffers from symphonies 1 to 4: huge, slightly mad pieces all of them.

My own symphonic "hit list" has always remained as follows: 6, 8, 10 and 16. Of these, 6 and 10 are probably more accessible to the average listener.

If any of these four could get "Proms" exposure, it might finally puncture the composer's image of being a writer of gargantuan and near-unperformable works.

Out of all of them, I'd push for No. 6. So original and gripping, and oh, that tune!

I don't think it's the first four symphonies that are the problem. Most regular punters won't know 2, 3 and 4. It's a problem with the Gothic and its reputation about being massive and clumsy with everything including the kitchen sink thrown at it. The overwhelming perception is that of a madman who wrote huge, impractical beasts. I don't see how that damage can be undone unless the Proms were willing to put some of his more sensible pieces in front of the public. Maybe a couple of the suites or symphs 3, 10 and 22. I don't think symph 3 would put anyone off either. It has a tuneful appeal to it. Maybe too much damage has been done. I personally don't understand why, for example, the Gothic has such huge orchestral forces. When you play back the Proms performance you don't think "blimey, this is two orchestras combined". Unless you are told you simply wouldn't know. Mahler 2 sounds more massive in terms of string sonority. This is where I think Brian was slightly bonkers. The combined string sonority produced by those two BBC orchestras that night still didn't have the opulence of a truly world class orchestra such as the Vienna Phil or the Berlin Phil. I couldn't believe my ears when I heard the BPO live having been bought up on the British regionals such as the Halle and the CBSO. Chalk and cheese. Does one conclude that a quality string section is actually all you need and that doubling it up is a folly? Answers on a postcard please 

[calyptorhynchus]

Although the Brisbane and Proms performances of The Gothic were major achievements, I still think that HB's reputation suffers from symphonies 1 to 4: huge, slightly mad pieces all of them.

My own symphonic "hit list" has always remained as follows: 6, 8, 10 and 16. Of these, 6 and 10 are probably more accessible to the average listener.

If any of these four could get "Proms" exposure, it might finally puncture the composer's image of being a writer of gargantuan and near-unperformable works.

Out of all of them, I'd push for No. 6. So original and gripping, and oh, that tune!

I agree with what you say in the main. I think Brian kind of had his career backwards, he had his early orchestral pieces, then fell into neglect. He started composing the the Gothic, I think, because he felt it would be his last work and lasting achievement (he suffered from poor health all his life and, like a lot of artistic types, was a bit of a hypochondriac). It was only after he wrote his 'last work' that he kicked off his symphonic career.

Totally agree about exposure of his later symphonies, no.15 at a Last Night of the Proms, as MM suggests. Any of the other symphonies anywhere in the concert world.

[Sergeant Rock]

The Hurwitzer (Classics Today) has reviewed more Brian. This time the Brian/Cooke Lyrita CD. The 10/10 review is short but sweet, with the paragraph on Brian ending:

"Both [Symphonies 6 & 16] are superb works, and these are fabulous performances. Indeed, this is the finest disc of Brian symphonies ever made[...]a mandatory acquisition for fans of 20th century British music."

I can't link to the full review because it's behind a paywall.

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks, Sarge! 'Finest disc of Brian symphonies ever made'... Perhaps helped by the fact that both works are among the best things he ever wrote.

[Klaatu]

Yes indeed! 6 and 16 (together with, IMHO, 8 and 10) are amongst his finest.

6 is perhaps THE Brian symphony to put before the general music-lover. A quite remarkable work which incorporates Celtic "atmosphere" and mystery, gorgeous lyricism and martial violence. The "big tune" at its heart is a major selling point.

16 is another masterpiece but not as immediately accessible because of its compression of ideas. Yet I find it has a compelling sense of direction sometimes lacking in other, more oddball HB scores. And the coda is, for me, the most convincingly triumphant ending the composer ever penned.

These two works, in this Lyrita recording, sound polished and - above all - inherently RIGHT - one gets the impression of a composer in complete control of both his vision and the technical means with which to project it.

Number 6 at the Proms - that's a worthy goal for the HB Society.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Number 6 at the Proms... Amen to that!


The ending of 16 is, indeed, colossal.

[Klaatu]

Malcolm MacDonald intriguingly heard 16 as a depiction of evolutionary processes - life itself emerging out of the dust of a lifeless universe.

I hear this too, and the ending might almost be heard as the indomitable will of life to survive in a hostile cosmos. Brian was apparently reading Herodotus' account of the Battle of Thermopylae while composing 16, and what was Thermopylae? A battle between a few hundred Greeks and a half-million Persians - a battle against impossible odds.

So in listening to 16 I can hear it on three levels:

- a symphonic poem about the Greeks surviving long odds against the Persians
- a symphony depicting life surviving long odds against the universe
- a symphony depicting Brian's own artistic survival against the long odds of neglect and indifference, and his personal survival against depression and poverty.

The coda of 16 always sounds like a shout of sheer defiance - "bring it on, you bastards, you can't beat me!"

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The coda of 16 always sounds like a shout of sheer defiance - "bring it on, you bastards, you can't beat me!"

Yes. And it has sustained me in my own artistic career. It is simply one of the most tremendous conclusions ever. It is terrifying and inspiring at the same time. I hear a rocket launch, 'We have liftoff!'. But also suffering. The first time I heard it, age 19/20, I said 'It's Auschwitz and the Universe'.

[calyptorhynchus]

I love the drive to towards the conclusion at the end of 16 too. What seems particularly profound about it is that it isn't the emergence of some heroic theme a la Romanticism, its an unformed, but actual, will to prevail, which happens in the end, the music driving through chaotic dissonance to arrive at the hair-raising conclusion, as in the famous Robert Simpson quote about one of the HB symphonies, "it's not about heroism, it's simply heroic".

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I suddenly remember another association I have - a clenched fist, delivering an almighty punch (that final chord).

[John Whitmore]

I suddenly remember another association I have - a clenched fist, delivering an almighty punch (that final chord).

Was this a punch up in Dam Square during your youth 

[John Whitmore]

I've seen the proofs of the Heritage LSSO double CD set. Very nice 12 page booklet. Looking forward to the release.

[Hattoff]

Simon Heffer, the Daily Mail journalist, played Brian's Legend this afternoon on BBC R3. He was quite enamoured of it, though a bit wary of the symphonies. He thought that Brian was an important British composer.

Does his opinion count though?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I don't think he'll make many converts. But - he likes Brian (in small doses), and that's better than nothing!

[calyptorhynchus]

Brian's Legend, funny how people latch on to atypical works of composers.

[Sergeant Rock]

This thread has slipped to the second page. That simply won't do. Bump 

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks for the intervention, Sarge! Any new experiences with those noisy symphonies on the Naxos CD?

[Sergeant Rock]

Thanks for the intervention, Sarge! Any new experiences with those noisy symphonies on the Naxos CD?

I've gotten used the noise    Definitely among my favorite Brian recordings now.

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Glad to hear it! It really is to be hoped Alexander Walker may try his hand at some other late symphonies, like 27 and 28.

[John Whitmore]

On its way in early August:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1014120_516677168386932_490933713_n.jpg