Havergal Brian.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I agree with your latest post. As for this documentary, I have seen it. Very enjoyable. It hasn't been issued commercially yet, though.

[Mirror Image]

I agree with your latest post. As for this documentary, I have seen it. Very enjoyable. It hasn't been issued commercially yet, though.

Damn! Hopefully, it'll be released before too long.

[Mirror Image]

I'm hearing some Delian-inspired moments in Symphony No. 10 past the 11 minute mark where the violin solo just breaks right through those ominous clouds. I think I read somewhere (maybe on the HB Society website) that he admired Delius. Even more reason to continue to listen to this man's music!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Brian was a great Delian. He knew Delius personally and was a staunch advocate of his works. Some of Delius's nature mysticism is sometimes there in Brian, too. Whether because of influence or affinity is a moot point...

[Mirror Image]

Brian was a great Delian. He knew Delius personally and was a staunch advocate of his works. Some of Delius's nature mysticism is sometimes there in Brian, too. Whether because of influence or affinity is a moot point...

Right, it really doesn't matter how Delius slips into Brian's music, but that it's there at all makes me grin from ear to ear. Good to know he, too, was a strong advocate of the composer.

[Mirror Image]

Give me Boulez any day.

I know this was awhile back, John, but...dear....lord...what a statement. Boulez is a good conductor but his own music is the equivalent of a bird cage with all the birds are squawking at the same time. Such rubbish.

[springrite]

a bird cage with all the birds are squawking at the same time

enticing! Kimi loved it!

[Mirror Image]

enticing! Kimi loved it!

Well I meant for this analogy to be taken in the most negative way imaginable.

[springrite]

Well I meant for this analogy to be taken in the most negative way imaginable.

And I am trying to diffuse it as it is quite similar to what you said about (fill in the blank) before...

[Mirror Image]

And I am trying to diffuse it as it is quite similar to what you said about (fill in the blank) before...

Ah, yes. Well in any event, I just found John's comment strange that he would prefer Boulez to Bruckner. That just baffles me.

Anyway, I've been making a whole day of Brian. I listened to Symphonies 10, 11, 15, 17, 30, & 32, Concert Overture, Comedy Overture 'Doctor Merryheart', English Suite No. 3, Concerto for Orchestra, In Memoriam, and Festal Dance. I wish I had something intelligent or even remarkable to post, but I'll just say that I've enjoyed every minute of this revisitation. Tomorrow, I'm going to try and find my recording of Symphony No. 3 (Hyperion). I heard this is an excellent symphony and it's been too long since I last heard it.

[springrite]

Ah, yes. Well in any event, I just found John's comment strange that he would prefer Boulez to Bruckner. That just baffles me.

Anyway, I've been making a whole day of Brian. I listened to Symphonies 10, 11, 15, 17, 30, & 32, Concert Overture, Comedy Overture 'Doctor Merryheart', English Suite No. 3, Concerto for Orchestra, In Memoriam, and Festal Dance. I wish I had something intelligent or even remarkable to post, but I'll just say that I've enjoyed every minute of this revisitation. Tomorrow, I'm going to try and find my recording of Symphony No. 3 (Hyperion). I heard this is an excellent symphony and it's been too long since I last heard it.

I knew you would love Brian!!!

BTW, I prefer Boulez to Bruckner by a mile and a half.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Re John's remark about Boulez - he hates Bruckner so much that he beats him with a composer he only hates marginally less... Ergo: he was joking.

I applaud your Brian binge, John. I wonder if all those symphonies are separate entities in your mind, or just one sonic blur... I am glad you enjoyed the music.

As for the Third Symphony - it's a rich and colourful score. The Hyperion recording is a bit dry, the performance itself is good. You could take a look at the Klassic Haus restoration of the BBC performance... There are samples. It's cheap.

[John Whitmore]

Re John's remark about Boulez - he hates Bruckner so much that he beats him with a composer he only hates marginally less... Ergo: he was joking.

I applaud your Brian binge, John. I wonder if all those symphonies are separate entities in your mind, or just one sonic blur... I am glad you enjoyed the music.

As for the Third Symphony - it's a rich and colourful score. The Hyperion recording is a bit dry, the performance itself is good. You could take a look at the Klassic Haus restauration of the BBC performance... There are samples. It's cheap.

Indeed I was and don't call me Ergo. I'm very heartened to see that some people have enjoyed the Heritage set. Makes the effort that went into getting it released very worthwhile.

[John Whitmore]

The Curse of the Gothic is good overall but there are some parts that make you cringe. It's also very long for it's content and it does tend to outstay its welcome in places. Did Bruckner edit it? What does come over, though, is a very enthusiastic group of people who had a vision and worked their socks off to deliver it. Considering the amateur status of most of the participants the end result was terrific - more evidence that Brian actually isn't that difficult to play and youth/amateur groups can produce decent results from the old chap's scores. Indeed, the Aussie Gothic audio recording is well worth a listen. I have a good recording of the film taken from the telly and I seem to recall sending Johan a copy. I met John Bridcut on a Queen Victoria cruise in 2012 and asked him if he intended to make a Brian film. He had been thinking about it and was in the choir for the Schmidt/LSO Gothic but couldn't remember much about it.

[John Whitmore]

Re John's remark about Boulez - he hates Bruckner so much that he beats him with a composer he only hates marginally less... Ergo: he was joking.

I applaud your Brian binge, John. I wonder if all those symphonies are separate entities in your mind, or just one sonic blur... I am glad you enjoyed the music.

As for the Third Symphony - it's a rich and colourful score. The Hyperion recording is a bit dry, the performance itself is good. You could take a look at the Klassic Haus restauration of the BBC performance... There are samples. It's cheap.

It's not cheap. How very dare you. It's a high quality product at a bargain price. Better performance than the Hyperion in my opinion.

[John Whitmore]

Hi, John!


First off - great that you're diving into Brian again!


The CDs that you have bought contain a lot of very late Brian, and I can predict that you'll have to grapple with those symphonies (20-25). I had, a long time ago. If I can recommend a listening order, I'd say - listen to Symphony No. 10 first. It's epic, mysterious and moving. I'll never forget hearing that opening for the first time. The playing of the LSSO is excellent; the violins can sound a bit rough, but in the final analysis that doesn't matter: the performance is unforgettable and the newer recording (Brabbins) hasn't managed to supersede it (and not only in my opinion).


I'd listen to No. 22, the 'Symphonia Brevis', after that to hear how Brian has changed during the intervening years. It's his shortest symphony, and one of his strongest. If you understand the way it moves and develops, you'll be able to 'get' the even more brutal concision and aggression of its successor. So - I recommend listening to the 'trilogy' 22-24 as a unit. I was never able to do that when I was your age, for the simple fact that only No. 22 had been recorded. But now the whole 'arc' of these three symphonies can be enjoyed. You'll find that 23 is the hardest nut to crack, but that No. 24 makes ample amends by many minutes of sheer lyricism.


After that - 'relax' with the First, Fourth and Fifth English Suites, the Fantastic Variations and The Tinker's Wedding.


Which leaves Symphonies 20 and 25, which won't give you much trouble if you have digested the trilogy of 22-24. No. 20 is quite spacious and lyrical and 25 is rather grim but approachable.


The wonderful Violin Concerto from the 1930s will make an excellent dessert...

Bloody cheek!!!!!! 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The Curse of the Gothic is good overall but there are some parts that make you cringe. It's also very long for it's content and it does tend to outstay its welcome in places. Did Bruckner edit it? What does come over, though, is a very enthusiastic group of people who had a vision and worked their socks off to deliver it. Considering the amateur status of most of the participants the end result was terrific - more evidence that Brian actually isn't that difficult to play and youth/amateur groups can produce decent results from the old chap's scores. Indeed, the Aussie Gothic audio recording is well worth a listen. I have a good recording of the film taken from the telly and I seem to recall sending Johan a copy. I met John Bridcut on a Queen Victoria cruise in 2012 and asked him if he intended to make a Brian film. He had been thinking about it and was in the choir for the Schmidt/LSO Gothic but couldn't remember much about it.

Yes, you sent me a copy, it's sitting on the pile of books next to me... I seem to recall the idea was to issue the documentary together with (a film of) the Brisbane performance, which would be great.

[John Whitmore]

Yes, you sent me a copy, it's sitting on the pile of books next to me... I seem to recall the idea was to issue the documentary together with (a film of) the Brisbane performance, which would be great.

Yes, a film of the actual performance would be well worth seeing, despite the music Why oh why did Auntie Beeb fail us so badly at the Proms?

[Mirror Image]

Re John's remark about Boulez - he hates Bruckner so much that he beats him with a composer he only hates marginally less... Ergo: he was joking.

I applaud your Brian binge, John. I wonder if all those symphonies are separate entities in your mind, or just one sonic blur... I am glad you enjoyed the music.

As for the Third Symphony - it's a rich and colourful score. The Hyperion recording is a bit dry, the performance itself is good. You could take a look at the Klassic Haus restauration of the BBC performance... There are samples. It's cheap.

Honestly, Johan, I can't remember a note of any of the symphonies. I have the same problem with Tubin, Rubbra, and Holmboe for example. Not being able to remember a work after I heard it doesn't mean of course that I dislike the music, it's just that, in my opinion, this kind of music is best listened to 'in the moment' and as to whether anything sticks or not, I'm not worried about in the long run because I'm constantly surprised by melodic and harmonic inventiveness of their music. I've liked every work I've heard from Brian so far and this should be a testament to the kind of consistency he had as a composer. But, I'm still learning my way with Brian and this could take months and even years, it's just going to take a lot more time. I could never expect to snap my fingers and automatically understand this music, but that would be foolish and unrealistic, but all the composers I've had to make an effort with have ended up becoming favorites. Although, with Delius, there was no effort on my part. I heard In A Summer Garden and I was almost in a trance and it's so interesting to hear Eric Fenby speak of this love at first listen with Delius, because he said you'll either love him on first listen or you'll never understand him at all. He was certainly right!

[Mirror Image]

I'm going to try and keep my Brian-related purchases here, so I just picked up this Mackerras recording:



I know you can buy the 2-CD set with Charles Groves, but it was much cheaper to buy the Mackerras separately.