Havergal Brian.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Yes, the Second English Suite is lost, a casualty of Brianic carelesness, I think (and of moving house a lot, I guess). As for the remaining ones, Nos. 1 and 3 are my personal favourites, but 4 and 5 are very inventive, too. And the Reverie in No. 5 is unique (Brian's Adagio for Strings!) On the Heritage CDs you'll find a better performance, by the way.

[Mirror Image]

Yes, the Second English Suite is lost, a casualty of Brianic carelesness, I think (and of moving house a lot, I guess). As for the remaining ones, Nos. 1 and 3 are my personal favourites, but 4 and 5 are very inventive, too. And the Reverie in No. 5 is unique (Brian's Adagio for Strings!) On the Heritage CDs you'll find a better performance, by the way.

Will be delighted to revisit English Suite No. 5. I really hope Dutton releases more Brian in the future. Brabbins needs to get to work!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I agree with your sentiment. But, alas - it seems Mike Dutton will need more prodding to produce British music CDs in the future. There is a discussion about it on the Art-Music Forum. Here is a page from the discussion (if you can enter the site, that is):


http://artmusic.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,2926.msg16693.html#msg16693

[Mirror Image]

I agree with your sentiment. But, alas - it seems Mike Dutton will need more prodding to produce British music CDs in the future. There is a discussion about it on the Art-Music Forum. Here is a page from the discussion (if you can enter the site, that is):


http://artmusic.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,2926.msg16693.html#msg16693

Already made a post.

[Mirror Image]

It took me just over twenty years to 'crack' the later symphonies (11 onwards);with the exception of No's 16 & 21,which I got to know via those celebrated recordings! I used to think they all sounded the same. One day I decided to make cdrs of the symphonies,so that I could listen to them all in succession. In one evening,it was as if they all seemed to mysteriously 'open up'! What had previously seemed a craggy,granitic ear grating trawl seemed to shape shift into an astonishingly varied 'hinterland' (to pinch a word from the old Lyrita sleeve notes,I think?) that surprised and delighted the ear. It is possible that Johan will recall that particular evening (night,actually!)? The posts are still on this thread,somewhere!
The ones after No21 took a little longer;but the timely arrival of the  recent Naxos cd soon sorted that one out! I just hope they will release a follow up?!! By the way,if you like Brian and other composers less favoured by the 'establishment' (or whatever you call it?) there is some very bad music for British music lovers on the 'Duttons for October' thread at the Art Music Forum today!!

Wow, twenty years?!?!? Holy crap! I would say that all of the symphonies I've heard so far, I have encountered zero problems. As far as getting more out of them this will only come with more listening experience. But never did I think "Oh, why in the world did he do this in that measure or why did he open this work with this musical phrase?" No, none of this thinking has even crossed my mind. His music is very well-thought out and conceived. How he managed to write all of this music and continue to reinvent himself over and over again is truly remarkable.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I remember I did struggle with a few of the later symphonies. What I did was listen to them again and again, and then, slowly but surely, the fog lifted. But at that time (late 70s, early 80s) I only had access to Symphonies 6, 8, 9, 10, 16, 21 and 22! That was all. I remember I found the first movement of No. 9 difficult! And No. 22 was a 'slab of concrete' to me. It was only after 1986 that, through the good services of fellow HBS members, I was able to listen to all of the symphonies that had been recorded. Then I started to see how varied Brian's music was and how uniquely recognisable at the same time. And I have never stopped loving that characteristic voice!

[Mirror Image]

Well perhaps, because of some of my extreme listening habits, Brian doesn't oppose any challenges for me. Remember I went through quite a Contemporary music phase not too long ago where dissonances and a completely different logic altogether is abound. When I returned to more 'tonally centered' composers, even the ones that I once had trouble with like Holmboe or even Weinberg, I found were easily accessible. This was a good experience for me because it allowed me to reconcile connections with these composers I initially found too 'difficult' to grasp. I'm not finding any such problems with Brian and I wager that I'll continue to grow with his music, but, like I said, I just need more listening experience to form any kind of intelligent response.

So, in closing, we're all wired differently and come from different avenues, but as long as we're finding a connection with Brian's music, which most of us who continue to post have, then that's all that matters. It's not really how we all arrived here, but rather how we continue to be shaped by the music.

[Mirror Image]

I'm really enjoying the new HBS website. Kudos to the webmaster there for doing a bang up job.

[cilgwyn]

Wow, twenty years?!?!? Holy crap! I would say that all of the symphonies I've heard so far, I have encountered zero problems. As far as getting more out of them this will only come with more listening experience. But never did I think "Oh, why in the world did he do this in that measure or why did he open this work with this musical phrase?" No, none of this thinking has even crossed my mind. His music is very well-thought out and conceived. How he managed to write all of this music and continue to reinvent himself over and over again is truly remarkable.

Yes,it's right to the back of the class for me! The upside is I now actually find the later ones even more absorbing.
But then they all are!

[Mirror Image]

Yes,it's right to the back of the class for me! The upside is I now actually find the later ones even more absorbing.
But then they all are!

Certainly, all the symphonies I've heard so far present the listener with a myriad of different moods and contrasts.

[John Whitmore]

Has anyone on here bought a copy of the new CD restoration of the Brian piano music LP on Cameo Classics? It worked out very well technically - much better than previous attempts from a poor, scratchy piece of vinyl. Can't admit to enjoying the music very much to be honest.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

It's on my list. It's an expensive month (daughter's birthday coming up, too).

[Mirror Image]

Just bought:



Apparently, the only recording of Brian's Cello Concerto. Will be interested in hearing the Bush work as well.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

You'll love the York Bowen - it's sheer beauty. Brian's Cello Concerto is one of his most attractive pieces. I only listened to the Bush only once, and I don't remember it...

[Mirror Image]

You'll love the York Bowen - it's sheer beauty. Brian's Cello Concerto is one of his most attractive pieces. I only listened to the Bush only once, and I don't remember it...

I'm not too impressed with York Bowen's music, but I'll give it a listen. The Brian and Bush works are the main attraction for me.

[John Whitmore]

I remember I did struggle with a few of the later symphonies. What I did was listen to them again and again, and then, slowly but surely, the fog lifted. But at that time (late 70s, early 80s) I only had access to Symphonies 6, 8, 9, 10, 16, 21 and 22! That was all. I remember I found the first movement of No. 9 difficult! And No. 22 was a 'slab of concrete' to me. It was only after 1986 that, through the good services of fellow HBS members, I was able to listen to all of the symphonies that had been recorded. Then I started to see how varied Brian's music was and how uniquely recognisable at the same time. And I have never stopped loving that characteristic voice!

Just listened to it. One of the shortest and most impressive slabs of concrete in the business. I like it very much.

[cilgwyn]

Right, it really doesn't matter how Delius slips into Brian's music, but that it's there at all makes me grin from ear to ear. Good to know he, too, was a strong advocate of the composer.

Part Four of 'Havergal Brian on music: Volume One,is devoted to his writings about Delius (at least 47 pages). He wrote more about Elgar;but "due to the remarkable size of the essay","The Art of Frederic Delius',which begins the Toccata Press Paperback selection,"they almost equal them in bulk". He is very enthusiastic about his music,referring to him as a genius.

If No 22 is one of the most impressive concrete slabs in the business,what does that make "Das Siegeslied",I wonder?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

If No 22 is one of the most impressive concrete slabs in the business,what does that make "Das Siegeslied",I wonder?

Good question. I didn't know 'Das Siegeslied' in those days, I had only read about it. The quality of hardness (and harshness) is different, I think. The 'Siegeslied' is violent and fiery. And the use of the human voice also makes for a different impression. No. 22 is 'greyer', the 'Siegeslied' more colourful.


But these are all weak metaphors (they do express a truth, though).

[John Whitmore]

Part Four of 'Havergal Brian on music: Volume One,is devoted to his writings about Delius (at least 47 pages). He wrote more about Elgar;but "due to the remarkable size of the essay","The Art of Frederic Delius',which begins the Toccata Press Paperback selection,"they almost equal them in bulk". He is very enthusiastic about his music,referring to him as a genius.

If No 22 is one of the most impressive concrete slabs in the business,what does that make "Das Siegeslied",I wonder?

An overlong fossilised dog turd comes to mind.

[Karl Henning]

Not that that's a bad thing . . . .