Havergal Brian.

[vandermolen]

Unfortunately my copy has gone to the school where I work (an essential component of my 'smuggle into the house' arrangements) and I am now on holiday for three weeks. I will have to go in to pick it up. 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Unfortunately my copy has gone to the school where I work (an essential component of my 'smuggle into the house' arrangements) and I am now on holiday for three weeks. I will have to go in to pick it up. 

Priceless.

Sorry, Jeffrey, but I cannot help but grin.

[springrite]

My safe warehouse is across the oceans and takes an international flight to retrieve!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

😅

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The things we do for Brian.

[springrite]

The things we do for Brian.

My plan is to get the CD before I reach the age of the composer when he composed the works...

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Lots of time left then, young 'un.

[Albion]

Having completed my listening, this is one of the best-played Brian recordings in the discography - 6 and 31 are spot-on but, as JH says, 28 is a revelation, reminding me of Vaughan Williams' description regarding his own 8th as containing "all the 'phones and 'spiels known to the composer" and in the process consigning Stokowki's wayward balance-misjudged 'interpretation' to the dustbin.

I have no problems at all, either, with Walker's more sedate tempi in 29: everything seems to flow so naturally from the first bar to the last and there is so much more orchestral detail to relish. This is even finer than the Naxos 22-24 and must count as one of the recordings of the year.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks, Albion, for confirming my first impressions. I have had the CD on a loop, and my enthusiasm is undimmed. One thing I want to add - the trumpet solos in the Tragica have so much presence, I almost felt as if Petrushka had been resurrected in a Celtic setting.

[jon rady]

 :)Hi, I am new to this site so please forgive any faux pas, and me going on for too long.  I have ordered this recording and am looking forward to it immensely, particularly after seeing the last posts.  I have been a Havergal Brian fan off and on since the first broadcast of Symphony 28 on BBC Radio 3, back in the late 1970s? (sorry I would have to look it up to be precise), when I was completely intrigued by this new sound world (Stokowski's exaggerations of the score notwithstanding, which I knew nothing about then of course).  I rather lost touch with Brian's music for a long time - I was a member of the HBS for some years in the 1980's, but sort of gave up due to the seeming lack of progress in any way regarding performances/recordings etc, that is until Brabbins Gothic Prom performance (not at the performance unfortunately) made me realise what I'd been missing and that maybe something was actually happening.

Also, I can't believe I have missed this website before – nearly 400 pages of comment/discussion!  I have only managed to go through a small part of it, but eventually felt compelled to join in.  The last few recordings of Brian's works have been magnificent.  We now have at least two contemporary conductors, Brabbins, and Alexander Walker in particular, as well as a few others (and I add, their orchestras), who understand this music.  I am not denigrating their illustrious predecessors such as Fredman and Friend, but these recent recordings just seem on a different level (technically and artistically) to what has mostly been produced before.  I always used to prefer the early symphony's (apart from 28), but after repeated listening to Brabbins 19, 27, the Concerto for Orchestra etc, and Walkers 22-24, I am finding myself thinking these later works are even finer –the English Suites are not bad either, though at the other end of the timescale.  I used to think Fredman's Symphony 6 could not be bettered, but now am not so sure (we will see when I get the Naxos recording).

Part of HB's problem has always been the players and conductors uncertainty about the music and often just bad recordings.  I'm sorry if anyone has posted this link before but this was a very illuminating (and interesting) consideration of various performances of The Gothic and recordings of it, by one of the sound engineers at Brisbane, which makes many good points I think, even if I don't understand all the technical stuff – those who judge a new work to them by one performance or recording please take note:

https://sites.google.com/site/recordingmaninoz/gothicreview

[cilgwyn]

Mine is in the post,as you know;but I have listened to the samples on Amazon and those trumpets really are arresting. They have a completely different sound to the ones in the Lyrita recording. I can't wait to hear more!

[vandermolen]

Priceless.

Sorry, Jeffrey, but I cannot help but grin.

Yes, I guess that it's karma Johan. 

[vandermolen]

:)Hi, I am new to this site so please forgive any faux pas, and me going on for too long.  I have ordered this recording and am looking forward to it immensely, particularly after seeing the last posts.  I have been a Havergal Brian fan off and on since the first broadcast of Symphony 28 on BBC Radio 3, back in the late 1970s? (sorry I would have to look it up to be precise), when I was completely intrigued by this new sound world (Stokowski's exaggerations of the score notwithstanding, which I knew nothing about then of course).  I rather lost touch with Brian's music for a long time - I was a member of the HBS for some years in the 1980's, but sort of gave up due to the seeming lack of progress in any way regarding performances/recordings etc, that is until Brabbins Gothic Prom performance (not at the performance unfortunately) made me realise what I'd been missing and that maybe something was actually happening.

Also, I can't believe I have missed this website before – nearly 400 pages of comment/discussion!  I have only managed to go through a small part of it, but eventually felt compelled to join in.  The last few recordings of Brian's works have been magnificent.  We now have at least two contemporary conductors, Brabbins, and Alexander Walker in particular, as well as a few others (and I add, their orchestras), who understand this music.  I am not denigrating their illustrious predecessors such as Fredman and Friend, but these recent recordings just seem on a different level (technically and artistically) to what has mostly been produced before.  I always used to prefer the early symphony's (apart from 28), but after repeated listening to Brabbins 19, 27, the Concerto for Orchestra etc, and Walkers 22-24, I am finding myself thinking these later works are even finer –the English Suites are not bad either, though at the other end of the timescale.  I used to think Fredman's Symphony 6 could not be bettered, but now am not so sure (we will see when I get the Naxos recording).

Part of HB's problem has always been the players and conductors uncertainty about the music and often just bad recordings.  I'm sorry if anyone has posted this link before but this was a very illuminating (and interesting) consideration of various performances of The Gothic and recordings of it, by one of the sound engineers at Brisbane, which makes many good points I think, even if I don't understand all the technical stuff – those who judge a new work to them by one performance or recording please take note:

https://sites.google.com/site/recordingmaninoz/gothicreview

Welcome to this group and thanks for the interesting post. I share your view of the Fredman recording but, as you say, we will see! I really look forward to hearing the new recording on Naxos. I very much like Fredman's Bax recordings on Lyrita too.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Welcome, Jon! And don't feel inhibited. When you have ploughed through all these pages, you'll have noticed we aren't always on topic and not always serious. Sometimes even other composers than Brian get a mention... I agree with your view of the later symphonies. Brian's great achievement in his final composing years is becoming clearer by the day thanks  to all those fine recordings in glorious sound. I am especially grateful to Alexander Walker for his interpretation of No. 29: I always found this work a bit disappointing after all the praise Malcolm MacDonald heaped on it. Now I know Mackerras didn't do the work full justice. Tempo is key in Brian. The more performances we get  of individual works, the better we can compare and see what tempo works and what doesn't.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks, cilgwyn! Read it. Guy Rickards, the writer of this review, is a Brian veteran of long standing...

[cilgwyn]

I thought the name rang a bell! (Which seems somehow,appropriate). A nice review. It would have probably earned an entire page,minus the pretty pictures,in it's heyday! I think there is a slight improvement under the new owners;but it's still the sort of Magazine you might pick up for a train journey! Alas!! Wierd paper,too,and £5.50!! I could have bought another Naxos cd!!

I am listening to the new Brian cd now! It dropped through the letterbox this morning. Those trumpets really grab your ears. Startling different to the ones on the Lyrita recording. I suppose I've got to be alone in this,but I found the unleashing of all that pent up violence (at least,initially) less startling than in the old Lyrita performance. I was expecting more of an eruption. Of course,I'm probably just used to the old recording and trying to find something to moan about in a marvelous recording. The superb recording quality and the impact of the percussion and all the detail I can hear now,more than makes up for any initial misgivings. The end seems truly inexorable. If only Brian had been able to make an opera out of this......and better still,as well;because I suppose we wouldn't have had this symphony,then! Oh,and I love the couplings,too. I really am looking forward to a time when I can put a whole stack of the later symphonies,as recorded by Naxos and Dutton, on to some cdr's and hear them,one after the other,in their rightful order!
No,don't get me wrong,this is an excellent recording. It seems like a golden age has opened up in terms of interpretations of Brian's music. A pity about Braunschweig,though!
I hope this team bring us more Brian! Imagine that sound you hear in the Sinfonia Tragica in the Battle scherzo of the Second Symphony?! It could be so thrilling!
Incidentally,why did the original Marco Polo cycle really grind to a halt. I heard it was because the 'other' symphonies weren't as popular as the Gothic. Or was it the quality of the performances (or lack of?) and the,often dry,boxy recordings themselves? Or was it all of these? I know Naxos,more or less,abandoned the Marco Polo label itself,in the end. Maybe,it just wasn't the right time for this music,either? The superb Dutton and the Second Volume of the Toccata cds (the first one suffering from dry sound) really opening up the beauty and quality of Brian's later music. And one last point. I wonder how many times an abandoned recording project has been continued by the same label (albeit under a different name) after such a long gap? If I recall correctly,the Brian society were talking about a complete (or near?) cycle? It just seemed to dry up. Everyone thought it was dead and buried,and now this? As if the Brian Phoenix has arisen from the ashes....in even greater splendour and even more spectacular plumage than before!!!

[cilgwyn]

Last edit! All I did was take a bracket out!!
That aside,I have just bought the Testament release of The Tigers from Presto,for £29.50 (inc p & P). That will be my last cd purchase for a while;although I have pre-ordered the recent Cpo recording of the final release in their Spohr symphony cycle. Can't resist that,unfortunately,for my wallet! Other than it will have to be something pretty amazing to make me spend any more;although,as I said in an earlier post,I've got cds of Honegger,Roussel,Spohr and Raff symphonies in the post!

Oh and,welcome to the Havergal Brian thread,jon!

[Augustus]

I've now listened a few times to the new Naxos disc and am very impressed.  At first I was thrown a bit by that Russian trumpet in No.6 but after a few hearings the new performance just seems so right.  The slow movement of No.28 is beautiful.  It manages to be slightly understated and emotionally intense at the same time and I'm not sure how Brian manages to do the two things at once. 

In all, the last two Brian issues have been among the very best of all Brian discs and with their run of symphonies 27, 28 & 29 have all but closed up that big gap of 26-29 there was in available recordings of the late pieces.

On another tack, has anyone ever noticed a little oversight in Dutton's usually fine editing, at the end of their recording of the Concerto for Orchestra?  If you listen at fairly high volume, in the silence just after the piece finishes a violin plays a couple of random notes before the track fades to silence.  I'm surprised that wasn't picked up during the editing. I'm sure it could have been easily snipped out.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Yes, I have noticed, too. Another strange glitch is on Dutton's latest Brian CD. There seems to be some sort of interference by a telephone at the end of the slow movement of Symphony No. 19, if I remember correctly. And to continue nitpicking, something goes awry in the Tragica in the exciting passage in the final movement with the great sinuous melody after that battering ostinato. When the melody gets to its lowest notes, the horns fluff it...

[jon rady]

I have listened to a few bars of those trumpets on iplayer.  Astounding.  Whether that was what Brian intended is another matter. But I can't imagine he would have complained.  And it seems to add to the greatness of the work whether intended or not.  But I will know if it works when I get the full thing.  Not long to go