What is the cause of the high divorce rate?

[mahler10th]

Yep, presumptuous.  Your experience is yours only and offers no real basis for suggesting what people "should" or "should not" do when it comes to relationships.

I accept your posit.  For one who dislikes preaching, I sure do a lot of it myself.

[Scarpia]

I accept your posit.  For one who dislikes preaching, I sure do a lot of it myself.

Self awareness.  An important trait to take into a marriage.   

[petrarch]

Well put, and I'd say that the "ultimate commitment" is what marriage is all about.  Folks who are in love but do not make the ultimate commitment are little chickens.

Utter BS. Formal or legal marriage is just a piece of paper with attendant conveniences and legal benefits. Two people in love don't have to marry to fulfill that love and truly live it. My wife and I never intended to marry and only did so, 11 years ago and after 2 years of living together, because we decided to move to a different country and the paperwork is so vastly simpler with that other piece of paper in our hands. We are and have been extremely happy together; getting married didn't change it.

[Bulldog]

Utter BS. Formal or legal marriage is just a piece of paper with attendant conveniences and legal benefits.

It can be much more than the above, but it appears you aren't of a mind to take it any further.

[mahler10th]

It is just as well no-one of us on this thread are all married to each other.
We would have divorced by now.

[Scarpia]

Utter BS. Formal or legal marriage is just a piece of paper with attendant conveniences and legal benefits. Two people in love don't have to marry to fulfill that love and truly live it. My wife and I never intended to marry and only did so, 11 years ago and after 2 years of living together, because we decided to move to a different country and the paperwork is so vastly simpler with that other piece of paper in our hands. We are and have been extremely happy together; getting married didn't change it.

You can take the attitude that you will be with your love as long as you are happy together, or you can take the attitude that you will make it your mission and commitment to build a happy life together.  That is the distinction as I see it, piece of paper or no piece of paper.

[abidoful]

Reason; people have sex before marriage.

[mahler10th]

Reason; people have sex before marriage.

My Driving Instructor told me this too.
I am thinking about that now.  Interesting....

[abidoful]

My Driving Instructor told me this too.
I am thinking about that now.  Interesting....

No sex but in marriage- that's very logical and that's how our "moral designer meant it".

[mahler10th]

No sex but in marriage- that's very logical and that's how our "moral designer meant it".

[Florestan]

Because for most of my life a shallow society understanding of the nature of real love was all I had. 

I don't think that blaming society at large for a personal failure is the way to go. You don't marry the society, but another flesh-and-blood person with her/his own personality and character, just like you. If things don't go well then there's something wrong in this mixture, not in the society.

From a purely statistical standpoint, not getting married means not getting divorced.

Just like not being born means not dying, therefore the cause of the high rate of deaths by car crashes or heart failure is that people have children. 

John, I'm sorry but your theories don't make any sense at all. 

[mahler10th]

I don't think that blaming society at large for a personal failure is the way to go. You don't marry the society, but another flesh-and-blood person with her/his own personality and character, just like you. If things don't go well then there's something wrong in this mixture, not in the society.
Just like not being born means not dying, therefore the cause of the high rate of deaths by car crashes or heart failure is that people have children. 
John, I'm sorry but your theories don't make any sense at all. 

Hello fellow Rangstrom lover Andrei!
Thank you for your views.
They do not correspond with what I've already said.
I do not blame anyone for anything.  It was me and my partner at that time who got married.  It was me and my partner that got divorced.  The marrige was not something we should have done, and we both accept that.  Both of us feel we learned a great deal, and we had a beautiful wee boy.  When divorce is mentioned, everybody cries failure and it's not always necessarly so.
I am not blaming society.  Thats would seem to be a very weak cop out indeed, it's not the argument I was trying to make    I am saying that I was not emotionally mature enough to understand the level of truth which powers two people who are truly in love to the VERY END, the same badly prepared mindset which is near viral in Society today.  Of course 'Society' isn't to blame.  That is more the talk of someone at student age, and I'm sorry my blethers were interpreted that way.

Just like not being born means not dying,

Yes 

therefore the cause of the high rate of deaths by car crashes or heart failure is that people have children.

  If you say so... 
We do not sign papers to live or die.  We do for marriage, which I advocate is an unnecessary social arrangement for people who truly love each other.
Thank you Andrei, I do enjoy a spirited debate.   

[Florestan]

Hello fellow Rangstrom lover Andrei!

Awrite! 

I do not blame anyone for anything.  It was me and my partner at that time who got married.  It was me and my partner that got divorced.  The marrige was not something we should have done, and we both accept that.  Both of us feel we learned a great deal, and we had a beautiful wee boy.  When divorce is mentioned, everybody cries failure and it's not always necessarly so.
I am not blaming society.  Thats would seem to be a very weak cop out indeed, it's not the argument I was trying to make    I am saying that I was not emotionally mature enough to understand the level of truth which powers two people who are truly in love to the VERY END, the same badly prepared mindset which is near viral in Society today.  Of course 'Society' isn't to blame.  That is more the talk of someone at student age, and I'm sorry my blethers were interpreted that way.

Well, I did interpret them rather along this line, but your explanations above cleared it up for me.  I don't argue your stance anymore.  0:)

We do not sign papers to live or die.  We do for marriage, which I advocate is an unnecessary social arrangement for people who truly love each other.

Actually, what kind of marriage are you talking about? Civil or religious?

Thank you Andrei, I do enjoy a spirited debate.   

You haven't seen anything yet, my friend. 

[petrarch]

It can be much more than the above, but it appears you aren't of a mind to take it any further.

That's the whole point. It already was and still is so much more, having a piece of paper made no difference.

[MishaK]

Utter BS. Formal or legal marriage is just a piece of paper with attendant conveniences and legal benefits. Two people in love don't have to marry to fulfill that love and truly live it. My wife and I never intended to marry and only did so, 11 years ago and after 2 years of living together, because we decided to move to a different country and the paperwork is so vastly simpler with that other piece of paper in our hands. We are and have been extremely happy together; getting married didn't change it.

If I may add to that... perhaps living together for a while before marriage is a good way of figuring out whether marriage is actually a good idea. In my case, my wife and I had been living together for 5 years before we got married 6 years ago. But for that same reason this:

Reason; people have sex before marriage.

is complete nonsense. It's perfectly good and healthy to have sex in a committed relationship before marriage as part of figuring out whether you are actually compatible enough for marriage. Jumping into a marriage with someone with whom you have not yet established that level of intimate trust is a crapshoot and more likely to be a cause of problems later on.

We do not sign papers to live or die.  We do for marriage, which I advocate is an unnecessary social arrangement for people who truly love each other.

No, but for good reasons (including privacy), you can't for example just allow anyone on a good faith claim of "I'm his girlfriend" to come in and see you when you're in a coma in hospital, or make custodial decisions about your children in your absence, or automatically inherit jointly owned property without a tax bill being due, etc. without some evidence of formalization of what would otherwise be a relationship, the seriousness and commitment to which cannot be well judged by 3rd parties who would need to verify it in the above cases. For my recent US citizenship application I just went through the process of proving to the USCIS that I am indeed married to my wife. That was difficult enough. Imagine how much harder it would be to prove your love and commitment to the authorities for such purposes if you didn't at least have some document formalizing the relationship.

[abidoful]

this:

Reason; people have sex before marriage.

is complete nonsense. It's perfectly good and healthy to have sex in a committed relationship before marriage as part of figuring out whether you are actually compatible enough for marriage. Jumping into a marriage with someone with whom you have not yet established that level of intimate trust is a crapshoot and more likely to be a cause of problems later on.

I think it is the exact opposite way around from what you are saying; I would say jumping in BED without having trust will cause major issues    Many get bruised for starting sexual relationships too early. I think this is just becouse lewdness is considered normal/natural while the view of sex belonging to marriage is not.  Our age is very sex-oriented and young people don't have that safety what you get from realizing that sex belongs to marriage- instead they feel this pressure of starting having sex.

Before I became a Christian, and God's laws on sexual chastity suddenly became clear to me, I had a long sexual relationship with a girl while we weren't  married. After it ended I  have had a long and painful recovery. The way I figure it, you meet someone, fall in love, start dating and getting to know each other before enterting in a marriage and starting that intimate sexual love life. Sex is something very special thing meant exclusively between two people in the safe surroundings of a marriage.

[Brahmsian]

Sex is something very special thing meant exclusively between two people in the safe surroundings of a marriage.

I strongly disagree.  While I agree that marrying the one you love is a good thing (I have done this myself), I also believe good sexual chemistry and a healthy sexual relationship is important.  I think one should have sex before they get married, to see if they are compatible in that sense.

[MishaK]

I think it is the exact opposite way around from what you are saying; I would say jumping in BED without having trust will cause major issues    Many get bruised for starting sexual relationships too early. I think this is just becouse lewdness is considered normal/natural while the view of sex belonging to marriage is not.  Our age is very sex-oriented and young people don't have that safety what you get from realizing that sex belongs to marriage- instead they feel this pressure of starting having sex.

Just because I reject one extreme doesn't mean I subscribe to the other extreme. Rejecting the ferklempt traditional sexual mores doesn't mean indulging in total promiscuity. Obviously you can't just jump in bed with anyone. Yes, trust has to be there and you have to have the emotional maturity to handle a) a relationship and b) a sexual relationship. Still, you actually have to experience the sexual relationship to see whether it works. It makes no sense to hitch your fate to another person for life before having figured out whether you're really compatible on all levels.

Before I became a Christian, and God's laws on sexual chastity suddenly became clear to me, I had a long sexual relationship with a girl while we weren't  married. After it ended I  have had a long and painful recovery. The way I figure it, you meet someone, fall in love, start dating and getting to know each other before enterting in a marriage and starting that intimate sexual love life. Sex is something very special thing meant exclusively between two people in the safe surroundings of a marriage.

The reason for your previous relationship having ended badly has nothing to do with your having had sex before marriage, I am quite certain of that. And being married to someone isn't in and of itself going to make the sex or the relationship better, nor will following "god's laws" prevent breakup when at least one of you realizes something isn't working in a satisfactory fashion.

[abidoful]

I think one should have sex before they get married, to see if they are compatible in that sense.

What is exactly being "compatible sexually"? That is horseshit. Women and men have very competible parts, that's all you need.

[MishaK]

What is exactly being "compatible sexually"? That is horseshit. Women and men have very competible parts, that's all you need.

Maybe that attitude is why your previous relationship didn't work out so well?