Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?

[Bogey]

I didn't read it either.  However, I would rather listen to 10 fabulously scored soundtracks by John Williams than...Jazz.   

One of his best here, John. IMO.  It may be a nice bridge for you, or just a score you enjoy on its own.   

[asin]B00007BKUE[/asin]

Steven Spielberg veered from the futuristic sci-fi flirtations of A.I. and Minority Report with this brisk, stylish period take on the career of teen con-man extraordinaire Frank Abagnale (Leonardo DiCaprio) and his dogged G-man pursuer/de facto extended family member Carl Hanratty (Tom Hanks). As always, the director's musical collaborator is John Williams, and the scoring legend uses the occasion of their 20th collaboration as a rewarding musical journey back to the days when he was known as Johnny Williams, ambitious young pianist for Henry Mancini on such early jazz scores as Peter Gunn. Informed by a half-century of subsequent achievement, Williams's return to the jazz idiom of his youth yields a smart, nervous score that evokes more than mere nostalgia. But with Dan Higgins's moody sax often leading the way, the veteran composer's work here seems more evocative reinvention than revisitation, yet another tribute to his uncanny ability to make any idiom his own. A handful of pop standards (including Sinatra's "Come Fly with Me," Getz and Gilberto's "Girl from Ipanema," "The Christmas Song" by Nat "King" Cole) deftly color both period and plot, but, as always, it's Williams who provides Spielberg's masterful imagery with its musical life's blood. --Jerry McCulley

[RJR]

Nothing that John Williams has composed can be compared to classical music. When the new concert hall was opened in Los Angeles a few years back John Williams was commissioned to compose the commemorative piece. The work of Bernard Herrmann that was played just after, or before it, (I can't recall) was a thousand times better.

[Bogey]

Nothing that John Williams has composed can be compared to classical music. When the new concert hall was opened in Los Angeles a few years back John Williams was commissioned to compose the commemorative piece. The work of Bernard Herrmann that was played just after, or before it, (I can't recall) was a thousand times better.

Well, that was Herrmann...like throwing one of LvB's contempoaries against his 9th.   

[jochanaan]

Nothing that John Williams has composed can be compared to classical music. When the new concert hall was opened in Los Angeles a few years back John Williams was commissioned to compose the commemorative piece. The work of Bernard Herrmann that was played just after, or before it, (I can't recall) was a thousand times better.

Sooooo, can the compositions of Bernard Herrmann be compared to classical music?

[jochanaan]

If Star Wars counts as classical music then I propose we find another term to categorize the music of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven et alii.

Some of us are working on it.  Success is expected hourly.

Seriously, the moment we start to base categories on qualitative judgments is the beginning of tyranny.  One man's meat is another man's poison, and one listener's Bach another's Britney.  I would rather admit that all categories are subjective than submit to that kind of taste dictatorship.

[RJR]

Sooooo, can the compositions of Bernard Herrmann be compared to classical music?

Go to Wikipedia and read up on Bernard Herrmann's musical training and decide for yourself.

[DavidRoss]

[asin]B00007BKUE[/asin]

"Williams's return to the jazz idiom of his youth yields a smart, nervous score that evokes more than mere nostalgia." --Jerry McCulley

I recall liking that score very much, Bill. Might be worth viewing the film again just to hear it. 

[jochanaan]

Go to Wikipedia and read up on Bernard Herrmann's musical training and decide for yourself.

I don't have to.  I've seen The Man Who Knew Too Much with its climactic concert scene, music by one B. Herrmann. So what about John Williams' training?

[71 dB]

This thread is a prime example of why I am fed up with discussion forums. 99% of this thread has no relevance to me. Ever since I saw the first movies by Spielberg and Lucas some 30 years ago scored by John Williams I have loved the music for what it is and I have recognized the huge added value to the movies. Someone calls the music junk. To me that is an absolutely meaningless statement that contradicts all of my experiences with the music. Someone questions John Williams' training. Again, totally meaningless to me. Yoda's Theme sounds fantastic to my ears, no matter how well or badly the composer is trained.

Debating with strangers online is mostly total waste of time. I am much happier when I concentrate on the things important to me. (this week I have been making computer music. It is fun and makes me feel good). All of you can call the Star Wars music whatever you want. Don't expect me to care.

[karlhenning]

99% of this thread has no relevance to me.

So read other threads.

</hand-holding>

[jowcol]

This thread is a prime example of why I am fed up with discussion forums. 99% of this thread has no relevance to me. Ever since I saw the first movies by Spielberg and Lucas some 30 years ago scored by John Williams I have loved the music for what it is and I have recognized the huge added value to the movies. Someone calls the music junk. To me that is an absolutely meaningless statement that contradicts all of my experiences with the music. Someone questions John Williams' training. Again, totally meaningless to me. Yoda's Theme sounds fantastic to my ears, no matter how well or badly the composer is trained.

Debating with strangers online is mostly total waste of time. I am much happier when I concentrate on the things important to me. (this week I have been making computer music. It is fun and makes me feel good). All of you can call the Star Wars music whatever you want. Don't expect me to care.

Personally, I thought the part where research was undertaken to show how Williams and other composers viewed writing film scores to be educational and constructive, but you are wise to realize the relative worth of others opinions vis a vis your personal experience listening to music. 

If you are happier making computer music, go for it!  Far more blessed in my book to create something rather than tear something else apart...

[Scarpia]

Don't expect me to care.

I'm lost here.  Did someone here claim to be discussing this for your benefit?   

[karlhenning]

There's a character in White Noise, one of whose recurring pet phrases is, "It's obvious!"

[Florestan]

Debating with strangers online is mostly total waste of time.

Might very well be. But boy, there's so much fun to it. OTOH, it helps enormously, in that one learns first hand "the infinite diversity of the human nature" (as Wilhelm von Humboldt very aptly put it two centuries ago).

And besides, if one is open enough, one can always (1) learn new things and (2) make new friends --- and these two things alone make the whole experience worthwile.

[karlhenning]

If by debating, Poju, you mean an impenetrable 'exchange' of opposing opinion, no argument, it must be one of the most pointless ways to pass one's time.  But to take debating to mean the exchange of ideas, in which process one considers anew one's own ideas . . . highly worthwhile, indeed.

[jochanaan]

Sooooo, can the compositions of Bernard Herrmann be compared to classical music?

I don't have to.  I've seen The Man Who Knew Too Much with its climactic concert scene, music by one B. Herrmann. So what about John Williams' training?

It would appear that the point I was trying to make with those two posts got lost in the shuffle.  I don't know whether I was being too obscure or too subtle, but...

Anyway, I actually checked Wikipedia before posting the last.  It happens that John Williams studied composition with the highly respected Mario Castelnuovo-Tedesco, a man whose credentials as a "classical composer" cannot be doubted.  So, 71dB, I was in no way "questioning" Mr. Williams' training; just the opposite, in fact!  His training is as "classical" and valid as that of any other composer.  To make a distinction between him and Bernard Herrmann on "classical composer" status, as a previous poster did, seems downright silly; they both are known mostly for their film work but have written concert music as well.

[jowcol]

There's a character in White Noise, one of whose recurring pet phrases is, "It's obvious!"

I know this is a tangent, but that is an excellent novel...

[vandermolen]

The 'March of the Ewoks' (Star Wars: Return of the Jedi) bears a remarkable similarity to Prokofiev's  March from 'The Love of Three Oranges'.

[eyeresist]

I'd say it bears a strong family resemblance to Prok's marches, but the themes are original. That said, much of Williams's music is hugely indebted to Prokofiev, and Holst's Planets - when you're given three weeks to write an hour-plus of symphonic music, you take inspiration where you can get it. And I still maintain that, if the Star Wars theme doesn't give you a thrill, there's something wrong with you.

BTW, Herrmann did not write the climactic music for The Man Who Knew Too Much - that was Arthur Benjamin's Stormcloud Cantata in both versions of the film, second version tarted up a little for large ensemble. For the remake, Hitch offered Herrmann the chance to write an original cantata, but Herrmann thought he couldn't (or in this case didn't need to) outdo Benjamin. He did, however, appear in the film as the conductor.

It's a very exciting scene!

[karlhenning]

It's too long since last I saw The Man Who Knew Too Much.

(Though I did recently watch "The Bird Who Knew Too Much," an episode of The Avengers.)