Brahms lieder

[Sean]

I'm listening to the complete DG 1972 7CD set with Fischer-Dieskau, Norman and Barenboim- fine music making in a cherishable repertory; like Schumann and Beethoven Brahms struggled somehow with large-scale effective vocal writing but lieder suits his contained personality well and though not as great as the Schumann it has a special place for me. The two cycles are Die schone Magelone and Four Serious songs but don't hold together so much, yet the consistent level of sensitivity and intelligence is soul balm after so much post-everything drivel.

[knight66]

I am fond of Brahms lieder. He is unfairly regarded as sticking to solumn subjects, yet he based a number of pieces on folk songs and there is the two delightful sets of Liebslieder walzes, set for four voices in all combinations and two pianos. They are sometimes performed by chamber choirs, but I think yield more personality and fun if sung by a quartet of vocalists.

Amongst his greatest songs are two for mezzo with piano and viola Op 91, gentle, rapt, tender.

Mike

[Sean]

Sure, the sets you mention are particularly inspired and melodious and indeed are best in their original scoring; seven were arranged for v&pf and included on the DG set, though none of the books of folksong settings. I know op.91 from a Baker recording if I remember, which I thought in that rather indulgent style she seemed unable to escape from, regardless of the objectivity she strived for .

[knight66]

Well, we sure are not going to agree on Baker, I regard her recording as the touchstone. Norman is very fine, she simply does not project the colouring in the words as skillfully. She is more inclined to rely on hitting you with the basic beauty of her voice.

Mike

[Sean]

Norman has a big voice but can control it well, making her a fine lieder singer; I note she was only about 27 at the time of the Brahms recording (most of the songs are with DFD).

Years ago I bought a Philips LP of a particularly ravishing and I think unsurpassed Frauen und lieben & Liederkreis op.24, accompanied by Irwig Gage; on the other hand her full breasted Ariadne auf Naxos and such are her equally engaging forceful but still unaffected side...

[knight66]

Norman is a favourite singer of mine. Do try her Das Lied with Levine, the music fits her like a glove. Back when I was in a lot of performances, I was in choir with Baker and Norman quite often and there was always a buzz whenever either of them was around. I loved Norman, but Baker tended to etch her performances on my brain.

Mike

[Sean]

I never saw either of them perform but they both understood Mahler more than most.

[knight66]

We used to joke that standing behind Norman, you could see her breathe in at the start, and that would last her to the end of a piece. Another one to give Baker a try on is Song of the Wood Dove from Gurrelieder. There is a version of that extract on the BBC Legends....epic.



But back to Brahms, Hotter is a reliable exponent.

Mike

[Anne]

Off topic for a moment but I really like Janet Baker in the DVD Orphe et Euridice by Gluck.  Not sure I spelled it correctly.

[Sean]

Sure thing Knight, I know the Chausson, and Gerontius & Sea pics, Bach cantatas 159&170 etc- I'm not that keen on her aristocracy but she still outdoes most.

[knight66]

We will agree to differ there I think Sean.

Mike

[Brahmsian]

Amongst his greatest songs are two for mezzo with piano and viola Op 91, gentle, rapt, tender.

Mike

I love this one in particular, too.

I have the recording with Ann Murray (alto) with Nobuko Imai (viola) and Stephen Kovacevich (piano).  So many lieder are for voice and piano, and I wish this combination were more of the norm, and more frequent.  The viola adds so much to the voice and piano combo.

[Sean]

Good point.

[Josquin des Prez]

Brahms's lieder is criminally under-rated.

[knight66]

Give us more; any specific discoveries?

Mike

[Mandryka]

The Cd which helped me enjoy Brahms Lieder most is the one with Brigitte Fassbaender. There's a particularly beautiful one for violin and piano and voice called Geistliches Wiegenlied, Op. 91/2. But the whole thing is a joy.

Also Sommerabend and Mondenschein, Op. 85 /1 & 2 -- sung by Fischer Dieskau with Barenboim (the only version I know)

And of course there are the Serious Songs. I only know Hotter in this, and it's good. Are there any other nice recordings?

Die Schone Magelone seems a bit uneven to me -- I only know it through the Richter/Fischer Dieskau recording. However Sind es Schmerzen, sind es Freuden (#3) is so special that I wouldn't want to be without it.

I have Hunt Lieberson's Brahms/schumann disc from the Wigmore Hall. I must confess I have hardly ever played it, but I notice the reviews are positive. Must give it a spin tomorrow.

Does anyone here enjoy the Folk Song Arrangements?

PS -- if you are into Janet  Baker try to see the DVD with her singing Penelope (Monteverdi's Ritorno) It shows what an outstanding actress she was -- really very special.

[knight66]

The Geistliches Wiegenlied has viola and piano to accompany the voice. I agree it and its sister song are especially beautiful.

This double disc of French and German songs with Janet Baker includes the two Op91 songs and the four serious songs.



It is well packed with superb pieces in first rate interpretations.

Mike

[ccar]

Each of these singers recorded only a handful of Brahms's lieder. But it is fascinating to discover how their immense artistry gave to each Brahms piece so much character and individuality.
And in spite of their differences they share a more introspective, intimate and natural approach to singing which I feel is much more humane and touching than other more vocally expansive, technically immaculate but sometimes oversophisticated or cold readings.   

Ferrier-Walter; Ferrier-Krauss/Spurr/Newmark; Schumann-Moore/Reeves; Heynis-Gage.   
Hotter-Raucheisen/Wuhrer; Hotter-Moore; Kipnis-Moore; Souzay-Baldwin.


    

[listener]

Getting a bit more into the choral genre, I'll warmly recommend the op.17 4 Songs for Women's Chorus, 2 Horns and Harp

[Sean]

Each of these singers recorded only a handful of Brahms's lieder. But it is fascinating to discover how their immense artistry gave to each Brahms piece so much character and individuality.
And in spite of their differences they share a more introspective, intimate and natural approach to singing which I feel is much more humane and touching than other more vocally expansive, technically immaculate but sometimes oversophisticated or cold readings.   

Ferrier-Walter; Ferrier-Krauss/Spurr/Newmark; Schumann-Moore/Reeves; Heynis-Gage.   
Hotter-Raucheisen/Wuhrer; Hotter-Moore; Kipnis-Moore; Souzay-Baldwin.


    

Great stuff ccar, I'd absolutely relish those.

The Brahms a capella stuff is also in ways more successful than his other large scale choral...