Saul's Music Space

[(poco) Sforzando]

You can't do a double stop like that with just one violin. 

Thank you!

And the reasons why (a) the trill for the trombone is unplayable and (b) it is preferable to notate the harp part in G-flat are?

Anybody???

(It rather baffles me why (a) you have the tuba an octave above the trombone, (b) why both instruments are doubling the melody, where they're getting in the way of the bass line, and (c) why if you want trills, you don't put them in the higher winds. But as you say, it's all in range, so what's the issue.)

[Saul]

You can't do a double stop like that with just one violin. 
(unless you have a custom violin with two G strings or can magically sound two notes on one string at the same time (Chuck Norris can))

I don't get it Greg, why can't you play double notes on the violin, or double stop? I know its not that easy, but to say that its impossible, is just not so accurate...

[Philoctetes]

I don't get it Greg, why can't you play double notes on the violin, or double stop? I know its not that easy, but to say that its impossible, is just not so accurate...

Um.. that isn't what he said.

You can do quadruple stops on a violin.

What he said is that the stop you are trying to do is not feasible.

[Saul]

Um.. that isn't what he said.

You can do quadruple stops on a violin.

What he said is that the stop you are trying to do is not feasible.

But why, can anyone explain?

[Philoctetes]

But why, can anyone explain?

He did explain.

[Saul]

He did explain.

I didnt get that explanation, maybe more detailed one is needed...

[Scarpia]

I didnt get that explanation, maybe more detailed one is needed...

You have a double stop consisting of A, which is played on the G string, and C, which therefore has to be played on the D string.   Do  you see a problem playing that C on the D string?

[Franco]

I didnt get that explanation, maybe more detailed one is needed...

The violin is a string instrument, with four strings tuned in perfect fifths: G, D, A, E

The notes you've written, A and C, can only be played on the lowest string - but not at the same time.

[Saul]

The violin is a string instrument, with four strings tuned in perfect fifths: G, D, A, E

The notes you've written, A and C, can only be played on the lowest string - but not at the same time.

Thank you Franco and Scarpia, that makes sense now.

Another question, I have written similarly on the section for the Cello, does this apply to the Cello too, or that's fine?

BTW franco, is that a picture of Adin Steinsaltz?

[Scarpia]

Thank you Franco and Scarpia, that makes sense now.

Another question, I have written similarly on the section for the Cello, does this apply to the Cello too, or that's fine?

Look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cello

[(poco) Sforzando]

Another question, I have written similarly on the section for the Cello, does this apply to the Cello too, or that's fine?

Come to think of it, that might give problems too. The first two notes are fine, especially as you can use the open D string, but the A-C looks like it might require an awkward shift in position, especially at your tempo. But ask Guido here for confirmation. Supposedly cellists can play scales in thirds, but I've heard that they find scales in sixths more secure. It should be easy to see why if you think how the instrument is tuned. My inclination would be to write the passage in sixths rather than thirds. But again, nothing beats talking to a real player.

[Luke]

Come to think of it, that might give problems too. The first two notes are fine, especially as you can use the open D string, but the A-C looks like it might require an awkward shift in position, especially at your tempo. But ask Guido here for confirmation. Supposedly cellists can play scales in thirds, but I've heard that they find scales in sixths more secure. It should be easy to see why if you think how the instrument is tuned. My inclination would be to write the passage in sixths rather than thirds. But again, nothing beats talking to a real player.

Real cellist here reporting, back from dicing with death in France (well, the car broke down anyway...). I'm not a Guido-quality one, maybe, but good enough to know that this would be very nasty to play and would end up sounding scruffy and strained. Sfz's analysis is absolutely right - each chord is easy enough (it's the first one which is hardest because it's furthest back and needs an extension, but that oughtn't to be a problem in itself) but you'd need a big position shift somewhere along the line to play all three.

I've always had big issues with music that is too difficult for what it is - rappy might remember this with comments I made about a trombone piece of his a long time ago. I'm not against difficulty, even extreme dificulty, but the style of the music and the degree of strain the player is put to must be in concordance for the thing to flow naturally. What you've written here, Saul, would be OK in a cello concerto, where the difficulty and the strain is supposed to show, but not as a throwaway interjection of a couple of notes in a string quartet which is supposed to sound easeful and playful.

So, back to this specific example - As Sfz said, cellists prefer sixths, vastly, but you couldn't really rewrite this with sixths without losing the sense of the imitation. So I rearranged this passage without the double stops - this would be so much easier, all difficulties and impossibilities erased, and also with a more interesting sharing of ideas between the parts. See what you think....

[Saul]

Makes sense Sforzando and Luke, thank you!

[Saul]

The violin is a string instrument, with four strings tuned in perfect fifths: G, D, A, E

The notes you've written, A and C, can only be played on the lowest string - but not at the same time.

Thank you Franco.

[Saul]

New Piece,

Love In the Forest for Piano...

http://www.youtube.com/v/RPpzyDh1SxQ

[Saul]

Performing my latest composition

Nocturne In E minor No.2

http://www.youtube.com/v/sS4r1hfyxo0

[Saul]

Etude In E major for Solo Violin.

Allegro, and score included.

Regards,

Saul

http://www.youtube.com/v/rg3fwylX0aE

[Saul]

I'm performing  here my Prelude in D flat major No.1, Allegro.

Originally I composed this theme as a chamber piece for a short film and most recently I have made a piano arrangement of it.

Hope you enjoy it,

Saul


http://www.youtube.com/v/NHMq3y2f4do

[(poco) Sforzando]

Etude In E major for Solo Violin.

Allegro, and score included.

Regards,

Saul

http://www.youtube.com/v/rg3fwylX0aE

First, I would say your piece is in C# minor rather than E. But other than that, just a comment on your violin writing. You can pretty much count on a violin to be able to play most successions of single notes, so probably nothing here is literally impossible for the instrument. But you are apparently attempting the kinds of arpeggios where the bow rocks across and back the four strings while the fingers remain immobile, and here your violin writing is, frankly, clueless. You are hearing the sound of a violin in your head, but you are writing as a pianist.

For example, your measure 5 can be played on some combination of the G, D, and A strings, but is impossible across the four strings. Bar 15 can only be played on the G and D. But when writing triple and quadruple stops for a violin you have to think positionally, and what looks impossible for a pianist may be perfectly idiomatic for the string player and vice versa. For example, a C major chord with G below middle C, E just above, C a sixth above that, and E a third above (top line before the ledger lines) is very awkward for a pianist to play with one hand, and as easy as can be for the violinist to play in first position.

You really need to get a fingering and position chart for the violin, and test each of your combinations in order to lay them out in the most idiomatic way for the instrument. Adler's book on orchestration also lays out a wide variety of possible combinations for quadruple stops.

[Saul]

First, I would say your piece is in C# minor rather than E. But other than that, just a comment on your violin writing. You can pretty much count on a violin to be able to play most successions of single notes, so probably nothing here is literally impossible for the instrument. But you are apparently attempting the kinds of arpeggios where the bow rocks across and back the four strings while the fingers remain immobile, and here your violin writing is, frankly, clueless. You are hearing the sound of a violin in your head, but you are writing as a pianist.

For example, your measure 5 can be played on some combination of the G, D, and A strings, but is impossible across the four strings. Bar 15 can only be played on the G and D. But when writing triple and quadruple stops for a violin you have to think positionally, and what looks impossible for a pianist may be perfectly idiomatic for the string player and vice versa. For example, a C major chord with G below middle C, E just above, C a sixth above that, and E a third above (top line before the ledger lines) is very awkward for a pianist to play with one hand, and as easy as can be for the violinist to play in first position.

You really need to get a fingering and position chart for the violin, and test each of your combinations in order to lay them out in the most idiomatic way for the instrument. Adler's book on orchestration also lays out a wide variety of possible combinations for quadruple stops.

That's all good, except that its indeed in E major, thanks.