Discrimination against progressives?

[Teresa]

You living in a fantasy.

The difference and the context is incredibly different, because these American Based groups are not Terrorists. Also they have never attacked any other country just like we were attacked by the Muslims from various countries. Once countries like Iraq and Afghanistan  harbor  and assist the terrorists who attacked us, they are automatically a target. And that was the case for going to war against those countries, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Your logic will only make case in this following scenario:

If the KKK attacked and murdered thousands of Scandinavians with the support of the American Government, only then ONLY THEN, the Swedes will have the rite to attack us.

That's the truth, and its time you faced this truth and stop deceiving yourself.

No it is YOU who is living in a fantasy world and think there are double standards for the USA apart from the rest of the world. 

Members of al-Qaeda would be arrested if they broke in any laws while visiting Iraq the same as they would be while visiting the USA.  And no they would not announce they were al-Qaeda to either Iraq or the USA.  Remember they are an illegal outlaw group in Afghanistan and so they would travel covertly.

The fact that terrorists are hiding out in ones country is NOT a reason for another country to overrun it and take it over. 

Every single one of those American Groups are terrorists and since you so far have failed to read the link I provided here is some information from it.

Domestic terrorism in the United States

"Domestic terrorism in the United States between the years of 1980 and 2000 consisted of 250 of the 335 incidents confirmed as or suspected to be terrorist acts by the FBI. These 250 attacks are considered domestic by the FBI because they were carried out by U.S. citizens."

If you bothered to click on the link would would see a description of many of the United States Terrorist organizations and Notable attacks associated with domestic terrorism.

You are the one deceiving yourself, it is wrong to attack governments just because criminals are hiding in their mists.  One should go after the criminals.  Don't forget Afganistan offered to help smoke out Osa Bin Laden but George W. Bush refused because he was friends of the Bin Laden family. 

[Saul]

No it is YOU who is living in a fantasy world and think there are double standards for the USA apart from the rest of the world. 

Members of al-Qaeda would be arrested if they broke in any laws while visiting Iraq the same as they would be while visiting the USA.  And no they would not announce they were al-Qaeda to either Iraq or the USA.  Remember they are an illegal outlaw group in Afghanistan and so they would travel covertly.

The fact that terrorists are hiding out in ones country is NOT a reason for another country to overrun it and take it over.  Every single one of those American Groups are terrorists and since you so far have failed to read the link I provided here is some information from it.

Domestic terrorism in the United States

"Domestic terrorism in the United States between the years of 1980 and 2000 consisted of 250 of the 335 incidents confirmed as or suspected to be terrorist acts by the FBI. These 250 attacks are considered domestic by the FBI because they were carried out by U.S. citizens."

If you bothered to click on the link would would see a description of all of the United States Terrorist organizations and Notable attacks associated with domestic terrorism.

You are the one deceiving yourself, it is wrong to attack governments just because criminals are hiding in their mists.  One should go after the criminals.  Don't forget Afganistan offered to help smoke out Osa Bin Laden but George W. Bush refused because he was friends of the family.

There is a global network of terrorism. These terrorists are supported, funded and trained by a number of states like, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria and the Palestinian Terrorists groups in the West Bank and Gaza. They are openly chanting 'Death to America' and 'Death to Israel', they are openly chanting 'Lets kill all the Jews and Christians'. They have tried and succeeded many times before in killing American citizens.

Now on 9/11 these terrorists came from Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. They were trained by Al-Quida and Al Quida received sanctuary by the Taliban in Afghanistan. The money for the terrorist activities of all these Muslim terror groups comes from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria and Iran. All of these regimes support in every way imaginable these terrorist groups and their ambitions.

Now let me explain to you how this Ring of Terror operates.

Iran and the Palestinian Terrorist groups have strong ties. They receive money and training from Iran with the explicit aim to destroy Israel and America. In turn on 9/11 the Palestinians danced on the streets and handed candies to each other. In turn Saudi Arabia sends billions of dollars to these Terror groups, and incites them religiously. In turn the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood has strong ties to Hamas, who daily calls for the destruction of Israel and the United States. In Turn Iran arms and supports both the Hezbollah and the Hamas and also thirdly the Islamic Jihad, and all three call for the destruction of the West.

In turn all of these terrorist groups, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and other Palestinian terror groups have strong ties with Al Quida.

There was a compelling case against them even before 9/11, because they are a danger to world peace, they are actively and physically seek the destruction of anything that is not Muslim, and they tried to murder non Muslims, and many times they succeeded, there is a Strong consistent track record of terror and death and destruction.

But on part of these American group, there is only rhetoric, protected by the constitution of the United States. Empty Rhetoric is not Terrorism, otherwise people will be arrested for what they are thinking and what they are saying, you want to go back to the middle ages?

There is a consistent track record of empty statements, not actual physical terrorist activities. This is an astronomical difference, and the fact that you insist to be positively blind to this difference, is puzzling and disturbing.

Teresa, logic works against your assertions, give it up, you're not making any sense.

[Bulldog]

I was for attacking the Saudi Arabia too, most of the bombers came from there, and the Saudi Mullah Kings are terrorist supporting, hateful anti Jewish and anti Christian schmucks.

Why stop there?  How about Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, etc.  Let's light them all up! 

[oabmarcus]

Sorry, I skipped much of the other responses since I last posted here. Just had to comment on this:

I'm not sure which campaign you followed. In the one I followed, Obama was unambiguously a pragmatic centrist, not a liberal. He has governed exactly like that. And wherever you stand, you cannot say that passing major healthcare reform (however imperfect) and financial reform is small fry. These are major achievements against considerable obstacles, at which all of his predecessors since FDR had failed. Short of a constitutional amendment ending two-party rule you could hardly expect much more out of this dysfunctional Washington arrangement. I didn't think we'd get anywhere near this much on healthcare reform.

I respectfully disagree. Why couldn't Obama atleast try to push for a single payer plan? Why not? What is Change good for if it's tiny, incremental change? In the end who were the winners? The insurance company got millions of more customers, and there was no cap on premiums. Do you know what the insurance companies will do once this law kicks in? They will raise their premiums to unpayable levels, thereby completely stalls the so called "progress" on universal coverage.

On the topic of financial reform. On the day it passed,  the stocks of all the major financial companies surged. At least the European governments are working for their people. They make big banks pay bonus taxes, but what about U.S? nope, nothing on bonus, nothing on derivative trading, nada. There were stuff on lending practices that's good, but still, not enough. I mean, calling Obama a centrist would be a compliment to him at this point. He has pretty much given in to the establishment every time, where is the fight? Whenever the right attacks him in outrageous ways, he just take it, why?

oh, remember the consumer protection agency, they are considering letting someone OTHER than Elizabeth Warren to chair it! Preferably one of Geitner's Wall Street buddies, right. Change, change my ass!

[Saul]

Why stop there?  How about Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, etc.  Let's light them all up! 

Yes, all these Muslim Arab countries that openly state that they want to destroy us and they stand together with our enemies I say lets destroy them first.
Logical by every standard.

Here's from Iran , they dont even try to hide it.
http://www.youtube.com/v/92myDzAFgU4&feature=PlayList&p=818AB9ED3913F1EE&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=1

[oabmarcus]

Yes, all these Muslim Arab countries that openly state that they want to destroy us and they stand together with our enemies I say lets destroy them first.
Logical by every standard.

Here's from Iran , they dont even try to hide it.
http://www.youtube.com/v/92myDzAFgU4&feature=PlayList&p=818AB9ED3913F1EE&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=1

you need a lesson on Iranian history and the involvement of the CIA.  There are good reasons for their hatred of America.

[Saul]

you need a lesson on Iranian history and the involvement of the CIA.  There are good reasons for their hatred of America.

Yes... its not like Ancient Persia wasn't an expansionist wicked dictatorship who wanted to control the whole world, and waged wars against Greece and all its neighbors ..I'm sure the CIA had something to do with that too rite?

The CIA before the United States was created helped in creating the hateful mindset of Persia?

Can't you see how you're not making any sense whatsoever?

[Philoctetes]

It's strange I support, fully, all of those nations named.

Interesting news note: The PKK have declared that they will disarm if Turkey meets some stipulations.

[Teresa]

Yes... its not like Ancient Persia wasn't an expansionist wicked dictatorship who wanted to control the whole world, and waged wars against Greece and all its neighbors ..I'm sure the CIA had something to do with that too rite?

The CIA before the United States was created helped in creating the hateful mindset of Persia?

Can't you see how you're not making any sense whatsoever?

Actually he is making sense, here is what oabmarcus was referring to:

Covert United States foreign regime change actions

1953 Iranian coup d'état

In 1953, the CIA worked with the United Kingdom to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Iran led by Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh who had attempted to nationalize Iran's petroleum industry, threatening the profits of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company. Declassified CIA documents show that Britain was fearful of Iran's plans to nationalize its oil industry and pressed the US to mount a joint operation to depose the prime minister and install a puppet regime.  In 1951 the Iranian parliament voted to nationalize the petroleum fields of the country.  Anti-communism had also risen to a fever pitch in Washington, DC, and officials were worried that a more socialist Iran might become friendlier with the Soviet Union, which had a historical presence there. "The aim was to bring to power a government which would reach an equitable oil settlement, enabling Iran to become economically sound and financially solvent, and which would vigorously prosecute the dangerously strong Communist Party."  Prime minister Mossadegh had dissolved the parliament, claiming massive support for the measure in a plebiscite and accepted the support of the communist Tudeh party for his government, leading to US fears of Iran drifting leftward.

The coup was led by CIA operative Kermit Roosevelt, Jr. (grandson of President Theodore Roosevelt). With help from British intelligence, the CIA planned, funded and implemented Operation Ajax.  The UK and US boycott and other political pressures by both governments, together with a massive covert propaganda campaign in the months leading up to the coup created the environment necessary for success. The CIA hoped to plant articles in US newspapers saying that Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlevi's return to govern Iran resulted from a homegrown revolt against what was being represented to the US public as a communist-leaning government. This attempt to manipulate the US media largely failed[citation needed], although the CIA successfully used its contacts at the Associated Press to put on the news wire a statement from Tehran about royal decrees that the CIA itself had written. The CIA hired Iranian agents provocateurs who posed as communists, harassed religious leaders and staged the bombing of one cleric's home to turn the Islamic religious community against the government.

The coup initially seemed to fail and the Shah (monarch) Mohammad Reza Pahlavi fled the country. After four days of rioting pro-Shah army units and street crowds defeated Mossadeq's forces and the Shah returned. According to the 1906 constitution he was a constitutional monarch who should rule together with the democratically-elected parliament, but after the coup he ruled autocratically, with little concern for democracy.

The Shah was frequently condemned for human rights violations and political repression which arguably increased support for the radical movements which culminated in the 1979 Iranian Revolution.  In order to damp down dissent, the Shah introduced popular reforms that did not threaten the interests of US or British multinationals (see the White Revolution).

Given the state of conditions in Iran; the Shah's modernization programs may have saved hundreds of thousands of lives from earthquakes and disease.  In 1974; it was predicted that Iran would be one of the top five richest countries in the world in twenty-five years.  Supporters of the coup have argued that Mossadegh had become the de facto dictator of Iran, given that he dissolved the Parliament and abolished free elections with a secret ballot, after declaring victory in a referendum where he claimed 99.9% of the vote.  Time Magazine has alleged that Mossadegh had ties to the terrorist organization that assassinated Iran's pro-Western Prime Minister, Ali Razmara, in 1951.

After reassuming power; the Shah introduced new electoral reforms to expand voting to all members of society, including women.  However, the Shah's regime, from 1941 to 1978, is estimated to have killed more than 1,000 Iranians.  Clashes between police and protestors during the Iranian revolution, between 1978 and 1979, left more than 2,700 dead.

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, in a speech on March 17, 2000 before the American-Iranian Council on the relaxation of U.S. sanctions against Iran, finally acknowledged:

In 1953, the United States played a significant role in orchestrating the overthrow of Iran's popular prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh. The Dwight D. Eisenhower administration believed its actions were justified for strategic reasons, but the coup was clearly a setback for Iran's political development and it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by America in their internal affairs. Moreover, during the next quarter century, the United States and the West gave sustained backing to the Shah's regime. Although it did much to develop the country economically, the Shah's government also brutally repressed political dissent. As President Bill Clinton has said, the United States must bear its fair share of responsibility for the problems that have arisen in U.S.-Iranian relations. Even in more recent years, aspects of U.S. policy toward Iraq during its conflict with Iran appear now to have been regrettably shortsighted, especially in light of our subsequent experiences with Saddam Hussein.

[Philoctetes]

@ Teresa

That's far too limiting. You can think back to the American's machinations in the 1980s and 1990s in relation to the Taliban, as perhaps even more of an affront to them. Plus the inconsistencies of the Americans in relation to human rights, sanctions, and so on. There is a multitude of fronts in which the United States is offensive.

[Teresa]

There is a global network of terrorism....

Teresa, logic works against your assertions, give it up, you're not making any sense.

I never said many terrorists groups were not organized on a global scale. 

I make no assertions just revealing the whole and complete truth of both International and domestic terrorism.  I gave links for everything proving beyond a shadow of a doubt all terrorism is deplorable.

Still one cannot blame a country for harboring terrorists, if they have broken no laws and have not run afoul of the government.  You are aware that the United States have given asylum to refugees who were accused of being terrorists in their home countries?   If you want to shut down the al-Qaeda, you go after al-Qaeda, not invading and demolishing every Arab country one at time.  You will NEVER get al-Qaeda that way!

[Philoctetes]

I never said many terrorists groups were not organized on a global scale. 

I make no assertions just revealing the whole and complete truth of both International and domestic terrorism.  I gave links for everything proving beyond a shadow of a doubt all terrorism is deplorable.

Still one cannot blame a country for harboring terrorists, if they have broken no laws and have not run afoul of the government.  You are aware that the United States have given asylum to refugees who were accused of being terrorists in their home countries?   If you want to shut down the al-Qaeda, you go after al-Qaeda, not invading and demolishing every Arab country one at time.  You will NEVER get al-Qaeda that way!

Also, al-Qaeda's network in Afghanistan, as estimated by the CIA is under 100 total persons.

[Saul]

Teresa,

I'll rather go after the states who harbor and support al-quida then
go after al-quida directly. Because al-quida doesn't live on a hot air
balloon, without the states that support them there is no al quida.

Once you knockout the terror states that support, train subsidize and harbor these terrorist groups will automatically disappear.

Also the whole notion that Iran was wronged by the U.S and therefore
her anger is legitimate, I say this is just about the stupidest thing
I have heard in a very long time. Did you hear his speech in the video that I provided?

The man wants to destroy us, literally. These people are not normal or sane by
any standard. Everyone has grievances, but sane peoples don't behave
this way. The Jews have lots of grievances against Germany but we don't organize mass
protests chanting " death to Germany". We don't organize Mass protests chanting 'death to Spain' for the inquisition.

The Chinese also have grievances against the Japanese for the crimes they commuted against Chinese civilians in ww2, but they don't have state sponsored mass protests chanting " death to
Japan".

The Armenians also have grievances on the Turks for the mass murder of over a million Armenians, but they don't chant 'death to turkey'. And the list goes on an on.
Sane human beings don't behave like this.

Yet you are ready and willing to blame your own country for the unacceptable beastly
behavior of the Iranian people, who have a very long history since
ancient times of war domination , battles and expansionism, oh and don't forget that they also persecuted the Jews and other peoples and minorities within their ancient kingdom, there was no America back then, there was no CIA back then. Who you gonna blame?

Teresa, the sad truth is that you are a communist who has a
demonstrably twisted ideology and morality.

I believe that you need to snap out of this total encompassing
darkness, and embrace the truth.

[Teresa]

Teresa,

I'll rather go after the states who harbor and support al-quida then go after al-quida directly. Because al-quida doesn't live on a hot air balloon, without the states that support them there is no al quida.

Not me I would rather DESTROY al-Qaeda once and all and completely!

Once you destroy all of the Arab countries and millions of Arabs and Americans, the al-Qaeda will just find another secret place to work their evil.  You do not understand they are TERRORISTS, they work OUTSIDE of all governments and will go where they can plan their terror in secret.  If there are no Arabian countries left they just find somewhere else to hide, perhaps in France or Spain?  Will you destroy them too?  And kill their innocent citizens as well?  Your hated is making me totally and completely sick. 

And yes I did listen to that whole YouTube "Death to America and it's Satanist regime"  The Arabs believe we are immoral and all of our actions are to glorify Satan.  Since our current political government has become part of the International Trilateralist Commission One-World Government whose designs are to squash individual liberty and national autonomy to make the world safe for unchecked capitalism, they have real concerns.

I personally think if the United States would give up it's Trilateralist Internationalist designs to eliminate all nations and make the world safe for capitalism.  No longer mess in the internal affairs of other nations.  Practice what we preach in the realm of liberty and freedom and behaved like the God-fearing nation we are supposed to be, that no radical Arab group anywhere would call a Jihad against us. 

I discovered "Death to America" is a yearly national holiday in Iran and it refers mostly to our Government, however they believe we shoulder guilt for allowing our nation to be taken over by Satan.  Will they actually kill Americans not just attempt to destroy our government?  I believe many of them would as they really believe we are evil through and through.  And that is the sad part, as I am sure most Americans do not support the immoral actions of our leaders, we all want and hope they do the right thing.  Sometimes they do, but more often they don't.

If you watched the rest of the Video after the Death to America rally you will discover they have found a cure for Aids which is in the final testing stages and they will share it freely with the world, I would assume that would include Satanist America.  The rest of the message was about love and peace for mankind.  It seems only American and Israel are seen as demons by the Iranians.  American for our immorality, and Jews for taken the land now called Israel away from them.

I believe we brought this on ourselves with our authoritative economic enslavement of most of the third world, because we give International companies who operate from the USA complete carte blanche to run roughshod over the workers of other countries just to increase their profit margins.

I believe that you need to snap out of this total encompassing darkness, and embrace the truth.

I am firmly and completely on the side of morality and truth, it is you that needs lessons in both.  For your immortal soul I hope you seek out and get the help you need. 

[Teresa]

Also, al-Qaeda's network in Afghanistan, as estimated by the CIA is under 100 total persons.

How many Iranians and how many Americans died so George W. Bush could protect the Bin Laden family?  He could have shut down al-Qaeda just days after the attack as Afghanistan was going to help since they wanted rid of Osa Bin Laden too, he refused their help.  He had to protect the royal Saudi Arabia Bin Laden family, his dear friends, but he also had to look like he was doing SOMETHING to retaliate against the 9/11 bombings so it was the perfect cover to start the war in Iraq.  That is why George W. Bush was evil and an American traitor.  There are a lot of indictments against George W. Bush for his many war crimes.

[Lethevich]

I love this moronic amnesia some anti-Obamites have. Disliking his policy is one thing, but criticising him for doing WHAT EVERY PRESIDENT AND LEADER DOES is quite another.

[oabmarcus]

I love this moronic amnesia some anti-Obamites have. Disliking his policy is one thing, but criticising him for doing WHAT EVERY PRESIDENT AND LEADER DOES is quite another.

Jiang Zemin! China's engineer generation of leaders. Perfect contrast to Bush. who is a dimwit to say the least.

[Saul]

Clearly now, everyone here can see that you are nothing but a communist with extreme radical left wing deadly and notorious ideas. Your attempt to blame the victims here, The United States and Israel who were attacked, time after time unprovoked, by terrorists who murdered their innocent civilians, is not only disgusting, but criminal, I just want you to know that these positions of yours have the characteristics of treason. Iran calling for the death of America and the Death of Israel is unacceptable and there is nothing that the U.S and Israel did that deserves such extremely wicked and devilish chanting.

Your attempt to blame everything on us, and exonerate the wicked Muslim Terrorists is shocking, but I didn't expect anything else from you, this has always been the position of the radical left and communists.

Even before the creation of the State of Israel and the United States, Islamic terrorists headed by the Almuahmadians, have spread devastation on many nations. And even before Islam was founded by Mohamed, ancient Persia was busy spreading its army to the four corners of the world, attacking anyone and anything that didn't submit to its rule. The ancient Kingdom of Persia consisted of 127 countries, they were a wicked dictatorial monarchy who waged endless wars and battles , no one had ever took land from them, but they took land from others and murdered other people. They are the aggressors since time immemorial, and yet you set up all your attention on recently created democracies, such as Israel and the United States, who have done more for human progress and benefit, then all the Arab and Iranian countries combined many folds.

You also fail to understand that Al Qauida wouldn't last one single day without a supporting state, not even one day!, therefore eliminating the hand that feeds the mouth will naturally eliminate the ,mouth and the entire body.  Running after one organization will  never solve the problem, the states that support them, must understand that they cant give any sanctuary, to terrorists, and they must be on the side of the free world who fights terrorism.

The Muslim Arab states, and Iran don't need 'reasons' or 'grievances' in order to terrorize people, look how they treat their own people, look what the Hamas terrorists do to their own people, how they murder them in cold blood in the streets of Gaza, without trail. Look how Iran hangs its gays in the streets without trial, look what they did to their people when they protested against the Iranian government, they murdered them in cold blood , in the streets in front of the cameras.

They are wicked, they are devilish, they are sick, they are monstrous, they are dangerous , and they don't need Israel or America or any other country to excuse their satanic behavior.

You really need to seek help, Teresa, your moral compass is broken to tiny small pieces, and you think irrationally, illogically, and horribly.

I hope that hope will still remain for you.

[Gurn Blanston]

OK, well, this topic has had whatever thin and bitter juice it might have had wrung out of it now. One of the compelling revelations to come out of it is that not one single mind was apparently changed, no one said 'hey, you know?, you're right!'. Nor will they ever. So beating this dead horse is only going to last for so long. And now that time has arrived. It sure has been fun!