Orchestras, Demographics, and Economics

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Reading about the recent Cleveland Orchestra strike inspired this topic.

Cleveland is a depressed city, and its population has declined by about half over the past several decades. Similar declines have taken place in a number of other cities with distinguished orchestras, such as St. Louis, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. These cities are also increasingly poor, and the current economic climate just makes everything worse.

Meanwhile, Sunbelt cities like San Diego, San Jose, Phoenix and Las Vegas have ballooned to great size. My impression (correct me if I'm wrong!) is that there is very little in the way of live classical music in these cities. In fact, I remember reading somewhere that San Diego (the 2nd largest city in CA) doesn't even have a full-time symphony orchestra.

This situation raises a number of questions:

1. How do the famous old orchestras survive in those declining Rust Belt cities? How dire is their situation with regard to attendance and raising money?

2. Why do the booming Sunbelt cities lack a classical music infrastructure? Does this simply reflect the way American culture is going, or is there some other reason?

3. Should the Cleveland (or Baltimore, St. Louis, etc) orchestra pack up and relocate to the Sunbelt to be where the people and money are?

[Scarpia]

Reading about the recent Cleveland Orchestra strike inspired this topic.

Cleveland is a depressed city, and its population has declined by about half over the past several decades. Similar declines have taken place in a number of other cities with distinguished orchestras, such as St. Louis, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. These cities are also increasingly poor, and the current economic climate just makes everything worse.

Meanwhile, Sunbelt cities like San Diego, San Jose, Phoenix and Las Vegas have ballooned to great size. My impression (correct me if I'm wrong!) is that there is very little in the way of live classical music in these cities. In fact, I remember reading somewhere that San Diego (the 2nd largest city in CA) doesn't even have a full-time symphony orchestra.

This situation raises a number of questions:

1. How do the famous old orchestras survive in those declining Rust Belt cities? How dire is their situation with regard to attendance and raising money?

2. Why do the booming Sunbelt cities lack a classical music infrastructure? Does this simply reflect the way American culture is going, or is there some other reason?

3. Should the Cleveland (or Baltimore, St. Louis, etc) orchestra pack up and relocate to the Sunbelt to be where the people and money are?

San Diego most definitely has a full time orchestra.  It had gone bankrupt at one point, but was subsequently reestablished on a secure financial footing.   Several of the cities you mention as decayed are actually quite vital.  Pittsburgh, despite loosing the steel industy, has become a technology center.  Baltimore, despite having some areas of urban decay, has a vital downtown and its orchestra also serves the suburbs of the Capital.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Thanks for the correction. It was actually the San Jose Symphony that went out of business (I got my Sans mixed up).

its orchestra also serves the suburbs

Maybe most of the audience is in the burbs now (speaking of the whole country, not just Baltimore).

[Scarpia]

Thanks for the correction. It was actually the San Jose Symphony that went out of business (I got my Sans mixed up).

Maybe most of the audience is in the burbs now (speaking of the whole country, not just Baltimore).

San Jose is as much a suburb of San Francisco as an independent city.  It marks the southern terminus of what is called "silicon valley."  The San Francisco symphony is within easy commuting distance and performs some concerts in a Concert Hall in Cupertino, very close to San Jose.  I'm sure the San Jose symphonies main problem was being in the shadow of the SFS.

[DavidRoss]

San Jose is as much a suburb of San Francisco as an independent city.  It marks the southern terminus of what is called "silicon valley."  The San Francisco symphony is within easy commuting distance and performs some concerts in a Concert Hall in Cupertino, very close to San Jose.  I'm sure the San Jose symphonies main problem was being in the shadow of the SFS.

Although the painful dearth of high culture in the South Bay (despite all the Silicon Valley money) may have at least as much to do with San Jose itself as with its proximity to a world-class cultural mecca.

[jochanaan]

...3. Should the Cleveland (or Baltimore, St. Louis, etc) orchestra pack up and relocate to the Sunbelt to be where the people and money are?

I can't speak to most of the "economic" issues, but such a move would involve a lot of hidden costs to the players.  Moving from a cool, damp climate to a hot, dry one would pose a high risk of wood instruments cracking; string players might have to buy new strings, reed players (oboists, bassoonists, clarinetists, and even saxophonists) would have to learn to make reeds in a different style; and all the players would have to learn new ways of maintaining and extending their endurance in a different environment.

[Sergeant Rock]

3. Should the Cleveland (or Baltimore, St. Louis, etc) orchestra pack up and relocate to the Sunbelt to be where the people and money are?

There have been rumors (threats?) concerning a Cleveland move to Miami for a number years. The orchestra's January residency in Miami is very successful. I have to wonder, though, if it would be as successful as a permanent resident orchestra. Recall: both the Miami Philharmonic and the Florida Philharmonic died early deaths. The Miami Symphony currently plays on a very limited scale (an average of about one program a month). Would Miami support a full time band? I don't know. But I really don't think Cleveland will be losing its orchestra any time soon. The situation is pathetic though. Consider the yearly deficits of the New York Phil, Philadelphia and Cleveland: only three or four million. My god, that's nothing!...or should be nothing. Peanuts. NBC just gave Conan 42 million...to leave! It's hard to believe there are no corporate sponsors or even individuals who could take up the slack.

Sarge

[Scarpia]

Football teams move, baseball teams move, that is because there are a limited number of major league franchises available.  You can't decide to start an NFL team or a Major League baseball team.  Except for the rare occasions when the leagues decide to expand you can only bring a team to a city by taking it from somewhere else, like the Dodgers going to L.A. and the Giants going to San Francisco.

There is no constraint on who can or can't have an orchestra.  If there is a demand for an orchestra in Miami, local government or philanthropists can simply start an orchestra.  They don't have to steal it from Cleveland, or anywhere else.  All they need is money.  If Miami is really a more viable location for an orchestra musicians will be attracted there by better pay and better music.  I suspect there are enough capable conductors and orchestra musicians that are searching for permanent employment to make it quite possible to found an orchestra in a place that is capable of supporting one.  Finally, I suspect some of our members from overseas are overestimating how pathetic smaller, middle America cities like Cleveland are.

On a related note, the most shocking instance of a major city without an orchestra is Austin Texas.

[DavidRoss]

NBC just gave Conan 42 million...to leave!

If only it would ensure that he's never seen or heard from again....

[Sergeant Rock]

On a related note, the most shocking instance of a major city without an orchestra is Austin Texas.

Who needs an orchestra when you have Austin City Limits

Sarge

[MishaK]

Maybe most of the audience is in the burbs now (speaking of the whole country, not just Baltimore).

That's certainly not true. As commuting costs (both physical and monetary) have increased and as inner cities have been revitalized and gentrified, the proportion of the audience that comes from the urban centers has vastly increased. Most of my classically-musically-inclined friends here in Chicago live within a stone's throw of the loop or within it. New York and Boston are probably even more extreme in that respect given the level of gentrification and the cachet of living in the city proper. But even in San Diego I know people who live in the gaslight district and go to concerts.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Most of my classically-musically-inclined friends here in Chicago live within a stone's throw of the loop or within it. New York and Boston are probably even more extreme in that respect given the level of gentrification and the cachet of living in the city proper.

I used to live in Chicago and can testify to this. But I put cities like Chicago, NY, SF and Boston in a different category from the Rust Belt cities I named, because they still have vital downtowns and middle-class urban neighborhoods. Although they've taken some economic hits, they have survived in much better shape than places like Detroit, Cleveland and St. Louis.

[mc ukrneal]

Actually, the Philadelphia Orchestra seems to be in trouble too, at least according to these recent articles:

http://www.timesleader.com/news/Philadelphia_Orchestra_may_declare_bankruptcy_01-25-2010.html

http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/arts/20100124__Bankruptcy__is_heard_as_orchestra_struggles.html

The second article is much longer and adds a lot more color to the situation. There are many comments (some of which are intersting). But with only 62% of seats being filled, they have a potential longer term problem.

[owlice]

If only it would ensure that he's never seen or heard from again....

Hear, hear!! Mr. Twitchy's best night on the Tonight Show was his last, IMHO. I wish him well.... on cable, which I don't have!

Velimir (goodness, you've had more names than I've had husbands!), please leave Baltimore's orchestra right where it is! It's a good band. My subscription for them this year is for the Baltimore venue, which is a splendid hall visually, and sonically, too, if you know where to sit; next year, I will probably change subscriptions to the DC 'burbs venue. I'll likely pick up a subscription to the National Philharmonic, too, which plays in that same 'burbs venue; they are also worth hearing, and have their own chorus to boot!

[jochanaan]

...Velimir (goodness, you've had more names than I've had husbands!), please leave Baltimore's orchestra right where it is! It's a good band...

And they've got a great music director in Marin Alsop.