Nørgård's Niche

[Alex Bozman]

I've got this CD, but found the music very difficult to get a handle on. I'll have to dig it out and see what can make of it now.

Norgard's 3rd and 4th symphonies are the pieces which I connect with most, along with the ensemble piece Night Symphonies Day Breaks.

I like Eliasson's Symphony for Strings, but the handful of his other pieces I've come across haven't sounded that disctinctive. Heard a few of the Norholm symphonies and virtually nothing by Heininen. What pieces by this trio do you suggest are worth tracking down? 

[vandermolen]

C'est fait.

I listened to it again and am no more nor less interested in Norgard's oeuvre than before.  Symphony no 3 is slightly more original but that, too, fails to communicate much of anything. It's not the composer's modernism. For my taste, music by Norholm, Eliasson and Heininen score about as high on the 'modernist' scale, but substantially higher on the musical one. Terrains vagues is more compact than the symphony and sustains the interest better. I suspect that some tricks like the accordion and ticking metronomes in the first part will not wear well over time. The sonic presentation is top notch. Liner notes are informative about the symphony but veer to the pretentious when discussing Terrains vagues. It would have been interesting if the author had interviewed the composer instead. He was very much alive at the time.

In short this is interesting music that unfurls without much incident. It is not modern enough to be criticized on that ground. Quite listenable as a matter of fact. It was the 4th time I listened to it since I acquired the disc some 10 years ago.

Thanks Andre. I don't think that I shall dash out to buy it. I will listen again to Symphony 3 as it is highly rated by many here.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

C'est fait.

I listened to it again and am no more nor less interested in Norgard's oeuvre than before.  Symphony no 3 is slightly more original but that, too, fails to communicate much of anything. It's not the composer's modernism. For my taste, music by Norholm, Eliasson and Heininen score about as high on the 'modernist' scale, but substantially higher on the musical one. Terrains vagues is more compact than the symphony and sustains the interest better. I suspect that some tricks like the accordion and ticking metronomes in the first part will not wear well over time. The sonic presentation is top notch. Liner notes are informative about the symphony but veer to the pretentious when discussing Terrains vagues. It would have been interesting if the author had interviewed the composer instead. He was very much alive at the time.

In short this is interesting music that unfurls without much incident. It is not modern enough to be criticized on that ground. Quite listenable as a matter of fact. It was the 4th time I listened to it since I acquired the disc some 10 years ago.

I checked and, yes, I have the disc. I recall listening to it, I don't recall much about it except a vague impression that there were weird sounds.

[Iota]

For what it's worth I found the String Quartet No.10 far more interesting than any of the symphonies I've heard. There just seemed far more point to it, as well as being very attractive music.

The Kroger Quartet recording is the only one I know.

[Madiel]

I've grasped some symphonies more than others. But this is part of why I'm going and trying everything I can find recordings of chronologically. I suspect some of the more puzzling later pieces might make a fraction more sense if I know how he got there.

I have the Da Capo Symphony series. I know some people like the Chandos recordings, but the couple of pieces I did a direct comparison of I definitely preferred Da Capo. For one thing I think Nørgård is a composer who benefits from high quality clear sound.

[Madiel]

Thanks Andre. I don't think that I shall dash out to buy it. I will listen again to Symphony 3 as it is highly rated by many here.

It's worth trying Symphony 2 as it very much leads to No.3.  The third takes the infinity series principles of no.2 and puts them on steroids.

[André]

It's worth trying Symphony 2 as it very much leads to No.3.  The third takes the infinity series principles of no.2 and puts them on steroids.

I will try it. I have it coupled with no. 4

[schnittkease]

The Kroger Quartet recording is the only one I know.

And it's the only one you need to know. Authoritative and approved by the composer.

I too prefer Nørgård's stripped-down late style to his busier early works. Of the symphonies, No. 6 is a favorite.

[André]

Cross-posted from the WAYL thread:

Symphony no 2 is a "pure" application of Nørgård's infinity rows technique. The notes mention that the results sound closer to Riley and Reich than to Boulez and Stockhausen. Agreed. The minimalist feel is obvious. The whole work is built as a mathematical structure: the first 4096 notes of the chromatic infinity row, equally divided in 4 sections of 1024 notes, each of these in turn divided by 4 ( = 256 notes of the infinity row), the sections being varied mostly by orchestration. Lest that sound numbingly repetitive and formulaic, there is variety in the musical result.

Obviously that kind of thing is a cul-de-sac over the long term and Nørgård was clever enough to recognize this early. Therefore he never settled for long into a particular musical technique. When he was done with an experiment he carried on and tried other things: "Change, growth and metamorphosis are recurring themes in Per Norgård's production". In the 4th symphony (1981) his encounter with the works of writer/painter Adolf Wölfli finds a striking musical illustration. From this experience he derives the notion of idyll/catastrophe, where beauty and chaos mingle to create a schizophrenic musical adventure. Given that both works are rather short (23 and 18 minutes) I can't say I was bored or irritated. The composer knows when he's done, a quality I appreciate.

[Iota]

Authoritative and approved by the composer.

Interesting.

I too prefer Nørgård's stripped-down late style to his busier early works. Of the symphonies, No. 6 is a favorite.

There was just something more substantial about Quartet No.10 than anything else I've heard by him. I've liked other things by him, but they've just seemed to lack vitamins, as it were. Am on the hunt now for similar fare.

[Mirror Image]

Norgard's 3rd Symphony was given its UK premiere at the Proms a few days ago, in the presence of the composer. Reviews were mixed but here is one of them:

https://bachtrack.com/review-prom-51-norgard-dausgaard-bystrom-bbc-scottish-august-2018

It's still difficult for me to fathom that this symphony (written in the early 70s) received it's U.K. premiere just last year. This symphony is brilliant and I don't like to use this word very much, because saying it so many times starts to lose the magnitude of its' original intent. The second movement, in particular, is mesmerizing and hypnotic. I tend to think of Nørgård in this way: he was a classical punk that gave the middle finger to the musical establishment by doing what he wanted to. I'm going to be revisiting a lot of his music in the next few weeks, or, at least, make some attempt to as there's so much on my musical plate at the moment.

[Mirror Image]

For what it's worth I found the String Quartet No.10 far more interesting than any of the symphonies I've heard. There just seemed far more point to it, as well as being very attractive music.

The Kroger Quartet recording is the only one I know.

A disc I can't recommend highly enough is his adaptation of Walt Whitman's Sea Drift. Have you heard it? It comes from this spellbinding disc:

[asin]B001PGMR9A[/asin]

[JBS]

I am trying to figure out if Norgard is a composer I would be interested in. Can someone describe his style(s)?

[Mirror Image]

I am trying to figure out if Norgard is a composer I would be interested in. Can someone describe his style(s)?

I think Andre summed Norgard up rather appropriately when he said with each work he had something particular in mind whether it be a compositional technique or method and then completely abandoned this technique/method for the next work. He's a composer of many stripes and colors, but I think it's important to understand that this composer is completely free of any stylistic constraints and goes on a whim from one work to the other. This doesn't mean, however, that his music lacks structure and logic, because there's plenty of this in the music. The puzzle that is Norgard lies in understanding that his non-conformity is a part of his music's allure. I think the emotional core of his music can be heard in say a work like his String Quartet No. 4, "Dreamscape" where we're exposed to some distressing yet subtle undertones through sustained notes and an eerie atmosphere. It's not unlike what you would hear in say Ligeti or Scelsi. It seems these are the composers I can think of that come close to this type of sound. In fact, I'd go so far to say that Ligeti is the closest to his sound-world. From my understanding, his works can be divided up into three distinct periods: the 'infinity series' works, the Adolf Wölfli-inspired period where he merged chaos with the more serene, and his late period music which draws on all aspects of his past and merges them together, but, sometimes, he completely breaks with his own past and creates something unlike anything else he has done. One thing that can said about his music and it's something that I admire, is he keeps you on your toes and takes you down some very unexpected roads.

I hope this helps (in some small way).

[JBS]

Thanks MI
At least it helps me to know multiple Norgards are at work.

[Mirror Image]

Thanks MI
At least it helps me to know multiple Norgards are at work.

You're quite welcome, Jeffrey. He's a tough nut to crack for sure, but I'm getting there and I think by reading a lot about him and listening to his music obviously (especially in succession -- one after another) has helped me get to the roots of his musical persona.

[Mirror Image]

Hey Jeffrey, this might be of some use to you:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2012/jul/30/per-norgard-contemporary-music-guide

[vandermolen]

Hey Jeffrey, this might be of some use to you:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2012/jul/30/per-norgard-contemporary-music-guide

Even though I'm the wrong Jeffrey I found the article interesting. Thanks for posting it John.

[Rons_talking]

In the late symphonies it's hard to hear Norgard's voice through all of the orchestral effects. Too much "tinkle-tinkle whomp-bam, tinkle." I'm looking forward to hearing his quartets.

[vandermolen]

In the late symphonies it's hard to hear Norgard's voice through all of the orchestral effects. Too much "tinkle-tinkle whomp-bam, tinkle." I'm looking forward to hearing his quartets.

I like your description of the music.