Song cycles presentation

[glindhot]

Next month, I begin a series of 9x1 hour presentations to an adult ed class of song cycles using cds and YouTube videos. I will be inviting open discussion and making available texts, translations and scores.

Because some of the class may have had little contact with song cycles, my intention is to start with an English cycle, namely, Vaughan Williams' "Songs of Travel." and from there turn to a, more or less, chronological sequence. Obviously, not every cycle one would wish to offer can be covered. Also, I think I ought present a few lieder that are not part of any song cycles, eg, Erlkönig.

I seek your opinion and any advice on what to include or exclude.

[knight66]

Well, it might get a bit academic, but Berlioz Les Nuits d'ete was the first orchestral song cycle. There are versions performed as written, for a group of singers. But for the most part, they are normally now sung by one singer. I feel that provides much more of a cohesive feel to the songs which otherwise sound like a group rather than a cycle. The mood is sustained by one singer rather then broken as the songs pass from singer to singer. Contrasting the versions might draw some thoughts out about when is a cycle a cycle.

Another 'group' that sustains a mood and although not considered a cycle, it is a connected group: Richard Strauss' Four Last Songs. Autumnal, created by a man in nostalgic, elegic mood as his own life draws to a close.

Mahler's cycles have a strong element of death about them, that might interest young people???

Schubert's Mullerin, his first cycle; takes the listener on a journey from hope to utter dispair.

Perhaps these latter ones are a bit heavy going.

Schumann's Frauenliebe und Leben takes a young woman from anticipation of marriage through to numbing widowhood. It might prove interesting to examine how the poems look at the life of a 19th cent. woman; passive, existing through her man rather than as herself.

Britten's Serenade for Tenor Horn and Strings is striking and uses exceptional poetry, more accessable because it is in English.

Just a few ideas.

Songs of Travel are very accessable. Terfel's version is the best I know.

A question.......why are there virtually no Italian song cycles?

Mike

[listener]

Richard Strauss' Krämerspiegel op.66  attracted my attention when I discovered it on vinyl, without an English translation and text omitted because it was "nicht möglich".
When you know the back story of Strauss's fights with his publishers it turns out to be a very well crafted and crafty set of songs.  The EMI CD set of Fischer-Dieskau Strauss lieder does give text and translation and some notes. 
"Die Händler und die Macher
Sind mit Profit und Schacher
Des HELDEN Widersacher.
Der laßt ein Wort erklingen
Wie Götz von Berlichingen."

[knight66]

I see you intend Erlkönig which shows up as Schubert's Op1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u__MAvYrfg&feature=related

Here is a contrasting version from a near unknown singer, superb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PwdmwpWkjg&feature=related

How about adding 'Der Hirt auf dem Felsen' which is seemingly his final song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPpII4xTVrc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIJKgRs2BMU&feature=related

Could two songs be more of a contrast? It also indicates that artists do not always compose in harmony with their inner life at that given moment in time.

Here is Emeling, very beautiful. There is also an equally lovely version with Margaret Price.

Brahms Four Serious Songs would make a contrast with his tender and beautiful settings Op91 for alto, viola and piano....try Janet Baker in those. Very accessable and beautiful songs.

Don't forget the Russians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e19iNHN-p9k&feature=related

There is enough material to fill a course for years on end.

Mike

[The new erato]

A question.......why are there virtually no Italian song cycles?

Mike

You cannot scream your heart out to the accompagniment of a sole piano.

[jochanaan]

...Vaughan Williams' "Songs of Travel."...

Ooooh!  Love "The Vagabond"!

Song cycles seem to vary in length and organization.  On the one hand there are collections with basically the same subject matter but no other unifying theme; on the other there are those highly unified, nearly symphonic collections such as Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde--itself an indispensable work for anyone interested in song cycles.

In addition to the above-named works, there are two cycles you should at least mention: Janacek's "Diary of a Man Who Disappeared," and Shostakovich's Symphony #14.  Yes, I know, it's called a "symphony," but it's really a song cycle, and seems to have been Shostakovich's Das Lied von der Erde; it occupies the same place in DSch's life and work as Mahler's magnificent cycle did in his.  (If you can, get the 1970s recording of the Fourteenth by Galina Vishnevskaya, Mark Reshetin, Mstislav Rostropovich and members of the Moscow Philharmonic; that one's white-hot!)

[mc ukrneal]

Another way to create interest is to show how different composers, using the same text, created different songs. Erlkonig is ideal for this, where Loewe has a version even better than Schubert's (and this is good to show people, as sometimes people just assume the more famous composer must always have the better songs). Other versions that are available on disc would be Spohr, Zelter, etc). The Hyperion 'Contemporaries of Schubert' 3 disc set has examples of some of these others, and was available at Berkshire (last I was there) and is definitely worth having anyway (if you don't already have them).  I might also include Reger too (with his orchestrated version of Schubert's Erlkonig). It's a great way to talk about how well the composers used the text and the music in comparison.

Dichteliebe and Wintereisse, as you know, are wonderful cycles and rich for discussion.

I would include Brahms, who is often overshadowed in lieder, but has many wonderful songs. If you choose some Mahler, I would chosse Des Knaben Wunderhorn. I think these are more lieder like than the Das Lied (if you get what I mean). Alternatively, I'd pick 'Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen'.

I love Russian songs. For a beautiful song, I'd pick 'I remember a wonderful moment' by Glinka with text from Pushkin. Here is a youtube link to one of the many versions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67pexJ4swq4. There are many from Mussorgsky, Borodin, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov, etc. if you wanted to show a progression in Russian songs.

Anyway, just a few ideas...

[knight66]

Especially in German and in French, it would be possible to concentrate on specific poets and then look at what has been set and then set more than once. I often link this site, I have found it to be invaluable.

http://www.recmusic.org/lieder/

Mike

[zamyrabyrd]

Don't forget An die Ferne Geliebte Op. 98 by Beethoven, probably the first significant Romantic song cycle (1816).  "To the Distant Beloved" has 6 continuous songs (that is without separation from the others and modulating to them) with pianistic writing that evokes the text as well.

ZB

[zamyrabyrd]

Another way to create interest is to show how different composers, using the same text, created different songs. Erlkonig is ideal for this, where Loewe has a version even better than Schubert's (and this is good to show people, as sometimes people just assume the more famous composer must always have the better songs).

That's really a minority opinion. 
The drama in Schubert's version jumps out at you and grabs you by the throat.
But y'all can decide for yourselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v6xt981S6Q

Offhand, the weaknesses here lie in the vocal part repeating the gallop rhythm and its virtual lack of development. Schubert is more economical in material as well.

ZB

[mc ukrneal]

That's really a minority opinion. 
The drama in Schubert's version jumps out at you and grabs you by the throat.
But y'all can decide for yourselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v6xt981S6Q

Offhand, the weaknesses here lie in the vocal part repeating the gallop rhythm and its virtual lack of development. Schubert is more economical in material as well.

ZB

But the atmosphere of the Loewe is more effective than the Schubert. The music really captures the tension of the song and matches the words well. You also get the snow/travel aspect much better portrayed. And then the ending is so very dramatic to match the early part of the song - more effective than the Schubert version which had a more abrupt end. I find the Schubert (which I love too by the way) less of a match of words and music. When you say the drama jumps out, I think it does so far more with the Loewe version. I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'd be happy to discuss in a different thread if you are interested.

[Ten thumbs]

Erlkonig is not part of a song cycle and a deviation from your theme. If you want to present something from the 20th century may I suggest Messaien's Harawi.

[knight66]

It is not a deviation of his theme, read his opening post again. Mind you, lots of suggestions, but the originator has been silent since he asked his question.

Mike

[zamyrabyrd]

But the atmosphere of the Loewe is more effective than the Schubert. The music really captures the tension of the song and matches the words well. You also get the snow/travel aspect much better portrayed. And then the ending is so very dramatic to match the early part of the song - more effective than the Schubert version which had a more abrupt end. I find the Schubert (which I love too by the way) less of a match of words and music. When you say the drama jumps out, I think it does so far more with the Loewe version. I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'd be happy to discuss in a different thread if you are interested.

OK, I listened to Loewe's version again and there is something to what you say about it. Prejudice does often get in the way of objective judgement.

ZB

[glindhot]

>the originator has been silent since he asked his question.

I break my silence to offer sincere thanks for the valuable suggestions, the thoughts and links. This very thread has given me a broader base on which to plan my sessions and also some issues for discussion by the class. In fact, I think I will print out the thread as a hand-out booklet.

Any thoughts for/against these cycles?
Berg: Sieben Fruhe Lieder
Faure: L'Horizon Chimerique
Grieg: Haugtussa

[mc ukrneal]

>the originator has been silent since he asked his question.

I break my silence to offer sincere thanks for the valuable suggestions, the thoughts and links. This very thread has given me a broader base on which to plan my sessions and also some issues for discussion by the class. In fact, I think I will print out the thread as a hand-out booklet.

Any thoughts for/against these cycles?
Berg: Sieben Fruhe Lieder
Faure: L'Horizon Chimerique
Grieg: Haugtussa

Not so familiar with these myself, but exposing different styles and approaches is a good thing. You never know what sticks with someone.

[Ten thumbs]

As having the scores available is important for an understanding of key relationships within a cycle, you will be wise to restrict yourself to song cycles for which you have these available, as is obviously your intention. I apologize for overlooking your reference to Erlkonig, which is actually a good introductory piece because it tells a story and you can discuss the key changes used within it to highlight the ongoing events.

[jochanaan]

BTW, pianists cringe when they hear they might have to accompany Erlkoenig.  All those repeated notes at that tempo make a good recipe for tendinitis!