The Age of the Universe

[Saul]

By Dr. Gerald Schroeder

Saul has been told before not to post long diatribes constituting other people's thinking. I have therefore deleted it.

Saul, if you alter this post, I will delete the thread. If you want o put a link into the thread....do it from a new post.

Knight

[Daverz]

Mental masturbation.

[DavidW]

Numerology is silly imo.   It's just like that character said in that movie Pi, if you look hard for a number you'll see it all around you.  Or something like that anyway.   If you look for numbers and patterns you'll find them, doesn't necessarily make them meaningful.

[Franco]

Gerald Schroeder is a very interesting guy.  He is a scientist (a geo- or astro- physicist or something related) who has written several books arguing that science and Torah (the Bible) are not incompatible, and uses current (as well as previous) scientific explanations for reality, the universe, and shows how these same ideas can be found in the Bible.

Not mental masturbation, and not numerology.

But if it is not your cup of tea, no problem.

[Saul]

Gerald Schroeder is a very interesting guy.  He is a scientist (a geo- or astro- physicist or something related) who has written several books arguing that science and Torah (the Bible) are not incompatible, and uses current (as well as previous) scientific explanations for reality, the universe, and shows how these same ideas can be found in the Bible.

Not mental masturbation, and not numerology.

But if it is not your cup of tea, no problem.

Thank you Franco.


B.Sc. Chemical engineering, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (M.I.T.)
M.Sc. Earth and planetary sciences, M.I.T.
PhD Earth Sciences and Physics

Gerald Schroeder is a scientist with over thirty years of experience in research and teaching. He earned his Bachelor's, Master's, and Doctorate degrees all at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, with his doctorate thesis being under the supervision of physics professor Robley D. Evans. This was followed by five years on the staff of the MIT physics department prior to moving to Israel, where he joined the Weizmann Institute of Science and then the Volcani Research Institute, while also having a laboratory at The Hebrew University. His Doctorate is in two fields: Earth sciences and physics.

Schroeder's formal theological training in biblical, talmudic and kabalistic interpretation includes fifteen years of study under the late Rabbi Herman Pollack, Rabbi Chaim Brovender and Rabbi Noah Weinberg, of blessed memory.

The scientific career that Schroeder chose has given him varied and often unusual experiences. In his work with nuclear disarmament, he has been present at the detonation of six atomic bombs. Work in control of radioactivity has put him hundreds of meters below ground in U.S. and foreign uranium mines. Within this research, he invented and had patented the first real time monitor for airborne alpha beta gamma emitters. The government of the People's Republic of China, during the decade before it established direct contacts with Israel, was willing to overlook his Jerusalem address and had him as a frequent advisor. He also has consulted for agencies of the governments of Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Canada, USA. Invitations for him to lecture have come from around the world. He has over 60 publications in the world's leading scientific journals on topics ranging from the radon atmosphere of the moon (in Science) to the metabolism of mother's milk (in Nutrition Reports International). The results of Schroeder's work have been reported in Time, Newsweek, Scientific American and in newspapers as far apart as Boston and Adelaide. His formal training in chemistry, physics and the Earth and planetary sciences provides the basis for the broad scientific perspective he brings to his books and lectures.

For the past twenty-five years, Dr. Schroeder has also pursued a study of ancient biblical interpretation. An ability to handle the biblical material in the original languages allows him to tap the subtle depths contained in the original texts. These nuances are often missed when working with translations. The uniqueness and success of Schroeder's approach integrating biblical and scientific knowledge is demonstrated by the success of his first book, Genesis and the Big Bang (published by Bantam Doubleday), and the wide acclaim for his second book The Science of God (published by The Free Press of Simon & Schuster and Broadway Books of Bantam Doubleday) which was on the Barnes & Noble list of non-fiction best sellers and was Amazon.com's best selling book in the field of physics/cosmology for all of 1998. This was followed by The Hidden Face of God, discovering the unity that binds all existence (published by The Free Press of Simon & Schuster). His book, God According to God, A scientist proves we've been wrong about God all along, was published in May 2009 with HarperOne and has enthusiastic endorsements by leading theologians, both Jewish and Christian, and a Noble Laureate scientist.

His books appear in 10 languages.

Gerald Schroeder lives in Jerusalem with his wife (the author, Barbara Sofer). They've had five children with a changing number of grandchildren. He moved to Israel from the USA in 1971. In addition to his current work in radiation control, he teaches at Aish HaTorah College of Jewish Studies, writes and lectures on the extraordinary confluence of modern science and ancient biblical commentary.

[mahler10th]

A very interesting post.  I've heard this before under a different guise from Christian sources.  Seven days representing time staged over 15 Billion years is a lot of disbelief to suspend.  Yet it may hold water, the Bible is full of such paradoxes.  The theory may give us an easier alliance between Science and Western Religion, but the foundation upon which it is based STILL has many hurdles to jump if it is to set up a quantum leap in belief.
God is what makes scientists investigate.

[Saul]

Here is a video lecture of Dr. Gerald Schroeder.

The Science of God

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7143844201875642538#

[Elgarian]

When you add up the Six Days, you get the age of the universe at 15 and 3/4 billion years. The same as modern cosmology. Is it by chance?

Definitely not. It's a testament to human ingenuity in finding spurious relationships between almost anything, and almost anything else.

[Daidalos]

Even if we say that the six days preceding the creation of the human soul are not literal days as we know them, 5 700 years is still too short a time to account for the human species and civilization. Homo sapiens has existed on this planet for at least 200 000 years, and Cro-Magnon man (virtually identical to modern man) walked the Earth 35 000 years ago; we have cave paintings that can be traced back more than 6 000 years; obviously, 5 700 years cannot encompass humanity. What are we to make of early Egyptian civilizations that precede the Creation of the human soul by some 2 000 years? What of the Ancient Chinese? For this to work, you must contend with the notion that early humans living in early civilizations were essentially soulless beings, and were only later endowed with souls.

Moreover, unless I'm mistaken - and I would ask our resident physicists to correct me if I am - current theory holds that the age of the universe is closer to 13 and 3/4 billions of years old, so the "calculations" the author derived do not yield figures chillingly close to scientific observations.

[The new erato]

Or maybe those ancient scribblers simply had no idea at all about what they were writing. Itthink that, by far, the most likely explanation.

[Saul]

Even if we say that the six days preceding the creation of the human soul are not literal days as we know them, 5 700 years is still too short a time to account for the human species and civilization. Homo sapiens has existed on this planet for at least 200 000 years, and Cro-Magnon man (virtually identical to modern man) walked the Earth 35 000 years ago; we have cave paintings that can be traced back more than 6 000 years; obviously, 5 700 years cannot encompass humanity. What are we to make of early Egyptian civilizations that precede the Creation of the human soul by some 2 000 years? What of the Ancient Chinese? For this to work, you must contend with the notion that early humans living in early civilizations were essentially soulless beings, and were only later endowed with souls.

Moreover, unless I'm mistaken - and I would ask our resident physicists to correct me if I am - current theory holds that the age of the universe is closer to 13 and 3/4 billions of years old, so the "calculations" the author derived do not yield figures chillingly close to scientific observations.

And this scientist with impeccable credentials among others doesn't know about this false theory of yours about the 'apes'?

Highly unlikely.

He knows that there is no single shred of evidence to support the notion that apes were the forefathers of humanity. But if you want to believe in science fiction, that's your choice, but please don't try to sell it as science, cause its just not. I have read too many books, articles and watched too many lectures absolutely rejecting this idiocy, I have no desire to hear it again Daidalos.

If you have something new to add to the discussion I would be more then willing to listen, but the ape stuff frankly bores the hell out of me.


And by the way, its either you didn't understand the article or you are been willfully ignorant of it.
This scientist talks about two different clocks. The first clock is the 'Biblical clock' that deals with the six days of creation. Then a different time begins from the creation of the soul of Adam, that's the 'human clock' and that's the 5700 human related time.

I think that this was very clear, perhaps you need to listen to the video lecture to get things in better perspective.

[canninator]

And by the way, its either you didn't understand the article or you are been willfully ignorant of it.
This scientist talks about two different clocks. The first clock is the 'Biblical clock' that deals with the six days of creation. Then a different time begins from the creation of the soul of Adam, that's the 'human clock' and that's the 5700 human related time.

I think that this was very clear, perhaps you need to listen to the video lecture to get things in better perspective.

I think the article you posted was highly enlightening but what is this Hubbell telescope he is talking about in the first paragraph? Where is it?

[MN Dave]

Or maybe those ancient scribblers simply had no idea at all about what they were writing. Itthink that, by far, the most likely explanation.

0:)

[Daidalos]

And this scientist with impeccable credentials among others doesn't know about this false theory of yours about the 'apes'?

Highly unlikely.

Not to comment on the rest of your post, since it is probably clear to everyone that you cannot see reason on this topic, but this little snippet deserves mention.

Appeals to scientific authority don't work for you. The vast majority of scientists don't think the "theory about the apes" is false; for every one scientist with "impeccable credentials" that you trot out to lend credence to your ignorance, there are one hundred scientists with equally good or better credentials who accept that all the evidence point to evolution. If you have any illusions regarding this, I urge you to check out Project Steve.

[canninator]

Not to comment on the rest of your post, since it is probably clear to everyone that you cannot see reason on this topic, but this little snippet deserves mention.

Appeals to scientific authority don't work for you. The vast majority of scientists don't think the "theory about the apes" is false; for every one scientist with "impeccable credentials" that you trot out to lend credence to your ignorance, there are one hundred scientists with equally good or better credentials who accept that all the evidence point to evolution. If you have any illusions regarding this, I urge you to check out Project Steve.

Piffle. The Chimpanzee Sequencing and Analysis Consortium tell us that the human and chimpanzee genomes are 98.4% identical and hold this up as some so-called evidence of an evolutionary relationship between humans and chimps. Well, I tested this "hypothesis" with an experiment of my own. I gave a chimpanzee a 1000 piece puzzle. If the genetic identity between humans and chimps has any meaning then the chimp must be able to put together 984 of those pieces. Do you know what I found? My test subject couldn't even get them out of the box let alone do the puzzle! Don't put your faith in the false religion of genetics. My own experiments have proven it to be a farce.

[Florestan]

I think the article you posted was highly enlightening but what is this Hubbell telescope he is talking about in the first paragraph? Where is it?

I guess he's referring to the Hubble telescope.

[MN Dave]

Or perhaps the Barney Rubble telescope.

[canninator]

I guess he's referring to the Hubble telescope.

There I was fishing for comedy gold and look what happened.

I guess I was way to subtly demonstrating that an article claiming some insight into universal origins fails to spell correctly the name of one of the most pre-eminent astronomers of the 20th century.

[Florestan]

an article claiming some insight into universal origins fails to spell correctly the name of one of the most pre-eminent astronomers of the 20th century.

This is indeed strange, and it can't be a typo given that it is misspelled twice.

[knight66]

Saul has been repeatedly told not to quote acres of material from other people's work. So I have deleted it. I have told him he is free to provide a link to it below this post.

'Grimes is at his exercise.'

Knight