The Most Underestimated Symphony

[Bogey]

Any of the early Dvořák.  Just need the right recording to make them shine:

[Brian]

Glad you like that set, Bill! ...did I recommend them to you? I forget.    I think I'll give Anguelov a spin tomorrow in the Second and Fourth. Dvorak's Second is the symphony where he truly found his mature "voice" - I especially love the scherzo, which is this marvelous concoction that sounds like the Beethoven of the 7th and 8th symphonies attempting to write some "Slavonic Dances." And the finale is irresistible...

[Grazioso]

I am constantly tempted to throw the Korngold F minor into the fray!

Agreed, a masterpiece that's at least well represented on disc, even if it doesn't seem to garner much discussion.

[The new erato]

Agreed, a masterpiece that's at least well represented on disc, even if it doesn't seem to garner much discussion.

...or performances, which is what tempted me to represent it as underestimated. At a time when almost everything is available on disc, performances are what matter.

[Christo]

non-symphonies

Errrr ... Chopin? Bach? 

[Guido]

...or performances, which is what tempted me to represent it as underestimated. At a time when almost everything is available on disc, performances are what matter.

It's maybe the hardest tonal symphony ever written, which is one reason why it garners so few performances.

[Brian]

Errrr ... Chopin? Bach? 

I'm confused ... I was referring to things Atterberg wrote that were not symphonies?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

It's maybe the hardest tonal symphony ever written, which is one reason why it garners so few performances.

Hardest in what way? To play?  To conduct? To listen to?

[knight66]

It's an amazing piece, superior to anything else I've heard of Pettersson's work; although to be fair, I've only heard about six of the symphonies, and there may be some gems I've not heard yet.

Be warned it's a real downer; you'll be digging out your Mahler 9 for a bit of light relief afterwards.

I have been away on holiday and it was waiting for my return yestarday. I have listened through to it three times and I am very glad it has been brought to my attention. It certainly is bleak, but I did not find it depressing. I need to listen some more to get the hang of the one movement sweep.

Mike

[False_Dmitry]

All 2.5 of Borodin's symphonies (the 3rd being completed posthumously by Glazunov) are almost entirely ignored.  They're not even played here in Russia.

A great pity as they're remarkable music, No 2 (B-minor) most especially so - "up there" with the Tchaikovsky symphonies, I would have said?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3e6CPLBZWI

[drogulus]

Pettersson makes Shostakovich sound like Mr. Rogers. The former's music isn't leavened (undermined?) by irony or black humor, but is deadly serious and intensely personal. It's not all darkest gloom, though: the 7th, for example, has its moments of great, luminous beauty and it ends, to my ears, more in philosophical resignation than in despair. Btw, Knight, if you like the 7th, try the 8th next, for something rather along the same lines. Of the two recordings I have, I prefer Segerstam on BIS over the CPO disc.

     I just came from the Youtube Petterson 7th and my reaction is that I will begin looking for more of this music immediately. Incidentally, my first thought was "sounds a bit like Simpson". My next reaction was "How the hell did I avoid hearing this for so long?".

[Elgarian]

Parry's third symphony is my choice. I don't think it ever comes even close to being performed in the concert hall, which is an extraordinary piece of neglect. And it's not merely a fine thing in its own right; listening to it, one realises that Elgar didn't just appear like lightning from a clear sky. Parry's 3rd has all sorts of little Elgar-like touches that make me nod and smile when I hear them.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

All 2.5 of Borodin's symphonies (the 3rd being completed posthumously by Glazunov) are almost entirely ignored.  They're not even played here in Russia.

A great pity as they're remarkable music, No 2 (B-minor) most especially so - "up there" with the Tchaikovsky symphonies, I would have said?

The Borodin 2nd Symphony used to be a fairly standard piece. Since about the 1970s, it seems to have fallen out of favor (even in Russia). This is a shame, since it's definitely my favorite 19th-century Russian symphony.

[jowcol]

The Borodin 2nd Symphony used to be a fairly standard piece. Since about the 1970s, it seems to have fallen out of favor (even in Russia). This is a shame, since it's definitely my favorite 19th-century Russian symphony.

Similarly, I don't think that Rimsky Korsakov's Antar gets the respect it deserves.  While it doesn't have the fireworks of Scheherazade, in a lot of ways I love it even more. 

[abidoful]

This thread--- it's not so easy to figure out about one symphony that is "underestimated".... It would be easier to talk about who is the most underestimated composer of symphonies. "Underestimated" isn't the same thing as "obscure" or "rare" or "unsuccesful"(in that case it would definately be the infamous Rachmaninoff 1st)- or whatever...! "Underestimated" means that the work is known to an extent in order to be estimated and undervalued, right?

So this is very hard indeed!

But i'll give it another try. At first, Schumann maybe comes to my mind. He's little underestimated as a symphonist. I think his second symphony is very grand And  the first movement of the third is just exhilarating and ingenious- Brahms must have loved that one!

Beethoven, Bruckner, Brahms, Mahler- those are most valued i think, at least nowadays.

Maybe Mendelssohn is also little underestimated? At least the Italian is just gorgeous...!

Then there are those "pop" symphonies, like Tchaikovsky 4th 5th 6th, i'm sure there are tons of people who just love them. Maybe those are also little underestimated- maybe for certain people there exists still a certain "superiority" of the German music (i'm sure of it, unfortunately)? Maybe we should talk about which is the most underestimated country producing symphonies (of course "a country" doesn't produce symphonies...or does it?). Maybe Sweden then? Coz I'd never heard- perhaps I should be ashamed to admit that - of Atterberg or Petterson before entering GMG.

I'll try little listing (there maybe missing one- or two ) ;
Italy-don't know any Italian symphonists
Poland- Paderewski (in b-minor-now really, who has heard that one?), Szymanowski, not his best works i guess- a little "uneven" set. Lutoslawski definately
Hungary- Liszt, did Leo Weiner wrote any symphonies??
Germany, Austria- Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Bruckner, Bruch (maybe those?), Schönberg (the chamber symphonies, do they count?), Webern, Karl Amadeus Hartmann (eight symphonies)
France- Berlioz, Saint- Saens (maybe those are underestimated?), Franck, Dukas, Magnard
Russia- Tchaikovsky, Balakirev (his symphonies are little underestimated i guess- usually he's regarded as a composer of solo piano works), Borodin, Glazunov, Skrjabin, Rachmaninoff, Kallinikov, Maiskovsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich (hey, they are very productive )
Then Grieg from Norway but i guess- though I love it- he himself was underestimating himself
Danmark- Johan Peter Emilius Hartmann, Niels Gade, Nielsen
Finland- Mielck ( pupil- allegedly a favorite one- of Max Bruch who composed the first professional Finnish symphony-  he died at 22), Sibelius (not underestimated here in Finland but maybe in Central Europe?), Melartin, Madetoja, Furuhjelm, Kaski, Ikonen, Ernest Pingoud (born in Russia) Väinö Raitio, Aarre Merikanto, Klami, Marttinen,Englund, Rautavaara, Heininen, Meriläinen, Kohlenberg (born in Germany), Kaipainen- of these Furuhjelm, Pingoud, Ikonen, Väinö Raitio (who produced only one)and Kohlenberg are never heard, even here in Finland.
And now I realise that my knowlidge of certain cultures and their music is on its end
From Great Britain I know only Elgar and Vaughan-Williams

So a neat answer is the GRIEG SYMPHONY IN C-MINOR- it was underestimated even by it's composer (you can't beat that )

But seriously, should we have an "Eurivision contest of symphonies"

[Grazioso]

Italy-don't know any Italian symphonists

There have been a few: Boccherini, Clementi, Martucci, Respighi (1)

[Lethevich]

There have been a few: Boccherini, Clementi, Martucci, Respighi (1)

Malipiero! He seems to stand out as one of the only post-classical period Italians who made a real stab at a sizable "cycle".

[Guido]

Hardest in what way? To play?  To conduct? To listen to?

To play. As with almost all of Korngold's mature orchestral works, the writing is incredibly taxing and fitting the whole thing together is very hard. Die Todte Stadt is one of the hardest operas to sing and play through, but Heliane is perhaps the most complicated and difficult of all operatic scores for the orchestra. The Symphony is of a similar level of hardness, and even the Symphonic Serenade for Strings is very taxing.

[Beetzart]

Vanhal: Symphony in D minor (Bryan d1)
Lalo: Symphony in G minor

And I think that Franck's Symphony in D minor deserves more attention.

[not edward]

If pushed, I'd probably nominate Schmidt's Fourth, even if emotionally speaking it makes Pettersson seem like a stroll in the park.

A couple of other Fouths that seem to get less attention than they might: Roussel's and Beethoven's; Mahler's Seventh also seems consistently undervalued to me.