Dmitri's Dacha

[Karl Henning]

I'm listening to the Cello Concerto No. 1 currently. Apparently the DSCH motif features in this work, but I cannot for the life of me spot it.

OTTOMH I wonder if you mean the Vn Cto № 1 instead?

[Maestro267]

OTTOMH I wonder if you mean the Vn Cto № 1 instead?

No, I meant the Cello Concerto. But now I've read that the four-note motif that starts the concerto is "derived" from DSCH. But it's certainly not DSCH. If G-Fb-Cb-Bb is "derived" from DSCH then anything can be.

[Karl Henning]

No, I meant the Cello Concerto. But now I've read that the four-note motif that starts the concerto is "derived" from it. If G-Fb-Cb-Bb is derived from DSCH then anything can be.

I agree, rather a stretch.

[snyprrr]

No, I meant the Cello Concerto. But now I've read that the four-note motif that starts the concerto is "derived" from DSCH. But it's certainly not DSCH. If G-Fb-Cb-Bb is "derived" from DSCH then anything can be.

But, really, it IS that jaunty Benny Hill/Monty Python motto... sure you can turn it into a thousand things, but the zeitegesheit is still there,... at least, I know I know how to spot his theme in its various guises...

Again, his theme "looks" like an awkward stick figure, representing the "nerdy" Shosty...

2 cents

[Maestro267]

But, really, it IS that jaunty Benny Hill/Monty Python motto... sure you can turn it into a thousand things, but the zeitegesheit is still there,... at least, I know I know how to spot his theme in its various guises...

But it's not DSCH though. DSCH is D-Eb-C-B. Those notes, in that order. A derivation would involve those same notes, either in a different order, or with repeats or something like that.

[Pat B]

But it's not DSCH though. DSCH is D-Eb-C-B. Those notes, in that order. A derivation would involve those same notes, either in a different order, or with repeats or something like that.

Or transposed, or inverted, or...

That CC1 motif, like DSCH, is four notes with the last two being a descending half-step. It does create a similar vibe, but I'm with you, I wouldn't call it a derivation.

[amw]

CC1 motive is two triads connected by a pivot tone on the third (in this case, E minor and Eb major). Shostakovich uses the same idea in the Symphony No. 15 and, less centrally, in other works. It's a totally independent idea and one that runs throughout his music.

However, the DSCH motive definitely does appear in CC1, in the second theme of the first movement.


The only credible reference I can find to the DSCH motive appearing in the first theme places it in the accompaniment instead of the melody, but it's not very noticeable to a casual listener, and may not even be intentional.

[Karl Henning]

A good observation, although I would draw a distinction between the motto (which does not actually appear) and the pitch content of the motto.

[Pat B]

Thanks, amw. But where is the Eb major triad in the CC1 opening motive? It seems to be missing the Eb. And without that, why not call it G minor? I think that's how my ear hears it.

[amw]

The missing Eb and G are in the woodwinds. Their 'answer' is basically the second part of the motive, the first part never appearing without it.

[Pat B]

The missing Eb and G are in the woodwinds. Their 'answer' is basically the second part of the motive, the first part never appearing without it.

Oh, of course. I was looking at those notes but forgot to account for the different clef. (I was a violinist and then a drummer, so just reading bass clef is an achievement for me.)

[Brahmsian]

To keep myself solely to your initial question:  this is the string fugato in the middle of the first movement of the Fourth Symphony.

Just looking through old posts on the Dacha thread (in the process of re-reading the whole thread).  The string fugato is absolutely amazing, Karl!

[Karl Henning]

Aye, that it is, Ray!

[Brahmsian]

Well, this must be the first day I've ever listened to the Opus 43 four times the same day. Guess I'm a phan-boy.

Ouch!!  I love the Opus 43, but four times in one day?  That surely is close to flirting with the noose! 

[Karl Henning]

Hah!  I think I'm doing all right 

[Brahmsian]

Hah!  I think I'm doing all right 

Indeed! 

[Brahmsian]

I just learned today that Violin Concerto No. 1 (such an amazing work!) is actually Opus 77, not Opus 99.  I did not know this until today!    We are now on page 77.  Coincidence?  I think not 

[Karl Henning]

0:)   

[Mirror Image]

I just learned today that Violin Concerto No. 1 (such an amazing work!) is actually Opus 77, not Opus 99.  I did not know this until today!    We are now on page 77.  Coincidence?  I think not 

Yeah, this is one those works he filed away due to what possibly could be perceived by the Soviet authorities as formalistic or whatever they seemed to love to peg musicians, poets, artists, etc. with who were creating art that wasn't up to their standards.

[Madiel]

It actually seems that he shuffled opus numbers around a lot, although I think in some cases this might just be at the manuscript stage. But the Sikorski catalogue I found has numerous entries reporting a former opus number: http://www.sikorski.de/336/en/shostakovich_dmitri.html