Dmitri's Dacha

[vers la flamme]

^I listened to a few samples from the set I posted. Very promising. I loved what I was hearing. One thing I'll say is that she takes the music slower than anyone else I've heard. But I don't see this as necessarily bad (or good) for that matter...

I listened to the first Shostakovich piano sonata while driving earlier, with Lilya Zilberstein playing, via Apple Music. Wow!! What a piece. Unfortunately the CD of her playing it is prohibitively expensive at the moment. Is anyone a fan of this work? I'd love to get it on CD but don't know which ones are supposed to be good.

[staxomega]

Ah, I see. I guess I will need to familiarize myself more with the Shostakovich quartets then. I know there are those out there who say that Shosty is not even in the same league as Bartók when it comes to string quartets, and I would definitely disagree with that.

@hvbias, really?! You've turned everything I know about op.87 on its head. From all I gather, Nikolayeva's Hyperion recording is a classic. I thought she was in great form there from what little I've heard. Is it really that bad? As for Scherbakov, I'm somewhat of a fan of his, and I was considering going for his recording as well. I will have to do a little comparing and contrasting. I wish Richter had recorded more of them, those he did record are amazing. I once heard about a famous exchange between Shostakovich and Richter in which composer asked pianist to perform the entire cycle of preludes and fugues, to which Richter dismissively responded something along the lines of "what, even the ones I don't like?" 

On the first paragraph Bartok had the great advantage of only writing six, IMHO they are all at an extremely high level.

Since you mentioned your girlfriend played piano I am curious as to what she thinks of Nikolayeva's Hyperion recording? I suppose I am being extra critical for a couple of reasons, playing piano at one point years ago and poring over the scores and listening to numerous interpretations. And on the former, thus making it so I can hear some things pianists do when their technique is faltering, and these sort of decisions not interpretive/artistic related. I'm a bit obsessed with Op. 87... the work has some flaws yet I'm always drawn to it.

That does seem like the most Richter thing to say, I really wish he would have recorded all of them.

Boris Petrushansky will be the next one I really throw myself into listening to, I have only heard it non-seriously.

[vers la flamme]

On the first paragraph Bartok had the great advantage of only writing six, IMHO they are all at an extremely high level.

Since you mentioned your girlfriend played piano I am curious as to what she thinks of Nikolayeva's Hyperion recording? I suppose I am being extra critical for a couple of reasons, playing piano at one point years ago and poring over the scores and listening to numerous interpretations. And on the former, thus making it so I can hear some things pianists do when their technique is faltering, and these sort of decisions not interpretive/artistic related. I'm a bit obsessed with Op. 87... the work has some flaws yet I'm always drawn to it.

That does seem like the most Richter thing to say, I really wish he would have recorded all of them.

Boris Petrushansky will be the next one I really throw myself into listening to, I have only heard it non-seriously.

I'll have to show her some time, I don't know if she's heard it. But she does like Ms. Nikolayeva's Bach, and her favorite pianists are Maria Yudina and Alfred Cortot, so it would seem that she is the kind of person that values interpretive originality over pristine technique. Of course, it could always be the case that a pianist has neither.  I'm a beginner-intermediate piano player myself but I'm in no place to critique anyone's technique.

What are some of the problems you hear in her Hyperion recording of op.87? Are there actual mistakes, wrong notes and the like, or is it more subtle than that, ie. poor phrasing, articulation etc? Just out of curiosity as she is still the front runner for me, though I am leaning toward one of the older recordings now.

[Madiel]

^I listened to a few samples from the set I posted. Very promising. I loved what I was hearing. One thing I'll say is that she takes the music slower than anyone else I've heard. But I don't see this as necessarily bad (or good) for that matter...

I listened to the first Shostakovich piano sonata while driving earlier, with Lilya Zilberstein playing, via Apple Music. Wow!! What a piece. Unfortunately the CD of her playing it is prohibitively expensive at the moment. Is anyone a fan of this work? I'd love to get it on CD but don't know which ones are supposed to be good.

I bought Melvin Chen's CD recently. He plays the hell out of the 1st sonata.

[vers la flamme]

I bought Melvin Chen's CD recently. He plays the hell out of the 1st sonata.

I'm totally unfamiliar with Melvin Chen, so thanks for the heads up. I'll check it out!

[Madiel]

I'm totally unfamiliar with Melvin Chen, so thanks for the heads up. I'll check it out!

As was I. I think he's only recorded a handful of albums. But the reviews were glowing.

[Madiel]

Also, there's a VERY recent Hyperion album by Andrey Gugnin that is getting good reviews.

So recent, I think, that it might not have been released when I bought Chen earlier this year.

[Herman]

A to the symphonies, I think the Kondrashin set is essential. Not necessarily as the only set, but kind of like the base.

[vers la flamme]

A to the symphonies, I think the Kondrashin set is essential. Not necessarily as the only set, but kind of like the base.

Very expensive, though, isn't it?

[aukhawk]

Muddy sound, unfortunately.

Only the most superficial reasons; namely (a), that Haitink is not Russian and (b), that I forgot it existed and was a highly praised set.  Looking into it now, it appears a tier higher in expense compared to the other cycles in my consideration. In any case I'll have to at least sample it before ruling it out entirely!

I deliberately avoided mentioning the Haitink cycle to prevent a firestorm 
I completely admire Haitink and if he is un-idiomatic in Shostakovich I suppose it is no more than Previn, who made a few excellent Shostakovich recordings (but no cycle).  Back in the day when the only real competition was between Haitink on Decca and the assorted soviets on Melodiya with indifferent sound**, obviously Haitink was a very strong recommendation.  But I think he's uncompetitive now - too westernised - OK in theory for the 5th and the 10th but not for the rest.

** indifferent on the original vinyl releases - I think recent transfers have greatly improved these recordings though.

[vers la flamme]

I'm really leaning toward the Petrenko now. I love what I've heard (movements from the 10th, 8th, 4th, etc...) – and I'm also a big time Naxos fanboy.

[aukhawk]

Ah, I see. I guess I will need to familiarize myself more with the Shostakovich quartets then. I know there are those out there who say that Shosty is not even in the same league as Bartók when it comes to string quartets, and I would definitely disagree with that.

It's been argued that the Shostakovich quartets are an incomplete cycle - since each of the 15 is in a different key signature leaving 9 more to go ... it's even been predicted in which order of keys the remainder would have been composed (eg No.16 would have been in G sharp minor, 17 in E major, etc).
This website discusses this among a lot of other fascinating insight into the String Quartets - some of it is very interesting.

I think DSCH is one composer where it's really interesting to get a handle on the timeline of his various compositions, to compare with the other stuff that was going on in his life and the volatile political climate he was working in.  For instance, the Cello Concerto and Quartets 7 & 8 are almost concurrent (1959-1960) and share lots of thematic material.  All peak DSCH and in stark contrast to the awful Symphony No.12 that appeared a year later.  Or, the Quartet No.2 that you've recently been listening to, was composed during WWII and fell between Symphonies 8 and 9 - that's rather startling - the Quartets from here on are all pretty 'late' works, especially compared with his symphonic output.  A bit similar to Beethoven there.

[vers la flamme]

It's been argued that the Shostakovich quartets are an incomplete cycle - since each of the 15 is in a different key signature leaving 9 more to go ... it's even been predicted in which order of keys the remainder would have been composed (eg No.16 would have been in G sharp minor, 17 in E major, etc).
This website discusses this among a lot of other fascinating insight into the String Quartets - some of it is very interesting.

I think DSCH is one composer where it's really interesting to get a handle on the timeline of his various compositions, to compare with the other stuff that was going on in his life and the volatile political climate he was working in.  For instance, the Cello Concerto and Quartets 7 & 8 are almost concurrent (1959-1960) and share lots of thematic material.  All peak DSCH and in stark contrast to the awful Symphony No.12 that appeared a year later.  Or, the Quartet No.2 that you've recently been listening to, was composed during WWII and fell between Symphonies 8 and 9 - that's rather startling - the Quartets from here on are all pretty 'late' works, especially compared with his symphonic output.  A bit similar to Beethoven there.

"Awful"? What's wrong with the 12th symphony? I've never heard it. Too "propagandistic"?

I never realized that about each quartet being in a different key. That's very interesting.

Thanks for the link to that site! I'll be exploring this.

I listened to quartet no.1 this morning, an old recording by the Beethoven Quartet. This quartet never left much impression on me until today's listen, but I really enjoyed it. Short and sweet. The Beethoven Quartet also made an amazing recording, with the composer on piano, of the great Piano Quintet, one of his greatest chamber works, I think. Interestingly, it was written (or at least published) before all but one of the quartets. Anyway, that recording is worth a listen.

I also yesterday ordered a CD with the Borodin Trio performing two Shostakovich chamber works, the 2nd piano trio and the piano quintet, on Chandos. Very excited to get it! I've heard their performance of the quintet before and loved it.

Any opinions on Shostakovich's non-SQ chamber works? Either the two I mentioned or others? I still have yet to hear all of the symphonies, of course, but where Shostakovich seems to shine the brightest is with his chamber music.

[staxomega]

I'll have to show her some time, I don't know if she's heard it. But she does like Ms. Nikolayeva's Bach, and her favorite pianists are Maria Yudina and Alfred Cortot, so it would seem that she is the kind of person that values interpretive originality over pristine technique. Of course, it could always be the case that a pianist has neither.  I'm a beginner-intermediate piano player myself but I'm in no place to critique anyone's technique.

What are some of the problems you hear in her Hyperion recording of op.87? Are there actual mistakes, wrong notes and the like, or is it more subtle than that, ie. poor phrasing, articulation etc? Just out of curiosity as she is still the front runner for me, though I am leaning toward one of the older recordings now.

To the best of my knowledge there are no mistakes, but I wasn't following along with the scores. It's a digital recording so cleaning it up would have been seamless. Poor/blurred phrasing, heavy use of pedal, slower tempi than AFAIK nearly anyone else, knowing how her approach changed in her late in life recordings compared to her early ones and lastly I've heard some bootlegs which couldn't have been edited where she is really struggling with the music. Not Op. 87 but other difficult pieces.

I think this is not necessarily a problem if the pieces still move you, but with all of these things it doesn't really do it for me.

Edit: I like many of Maria Yudina's recordings, I'm really contemplating getting the new Melodiya set of hers but some of the pianos she used sound out of tune And of course I am a big fan of Alfred Cortot! He played so many Chopin and Schumann pieces with real feeling, piano critics be damned.

[Jo498]

That's a somewhat misleading comparison. When I bought my first disc of DSCH quartets in the mid-1990s I got the Brodsky with (I think) 6, 10 and 14. The opus numbers were  either not printed on the cover or I didn't bother to check them and simply supposed that similarly to Beethoven there would be one earlyish, one middle and one late piece in that anthology. Because with Beethoven the quartets fall more neatly into "early, middle, late" than most other genres
But in fact with DSCH 6,10,14 are all "lateish" works (and it was not a very good start for me; I later got 3 and 5 on Naxos and 8-10 which made a better impression) as DSCH did not write any early quartets. He wrote about 3-4 "middle quartets" and 11-12 late ones.

And no, he usually isn't in Bartok's league although he comes closer to Bartok quality in the quartets than in orchestral or piano music.

[Karl Henning]

I have been receptive to the music of Shostakovich lately. The first violin concerto blew me away when I heard it the other day. Additionally I have been dipping into my complete string quartets set from the Pacifica Quartet, an amazing cycle which also contains a few quartets by such other Soviet composers as Schnittke, Prokofiev, Myaskovsky, and Weinberg. I especially love the 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th quartets. I can't believe how many great ones he wrote.

The symphonies have been more elusive to me. I have listened to numerous times and enjoyed the 5th, I have seen the 7th live in concert but never listened to it again after that (it was pretty good, but one has to be in a mood for it), I really enjoy the 9th, and I've heard the 10th and found it very interesting, but I think I have a bad recording (Frank Shipway/Royal Philharmonic; it struck me as quite pedestrian the last time I listened). So what I think I need is a halfway decent complete set of the symphonies to work through. I'm down to three choices: Rostropovich on Warner, V. Petrenko on Naxos, and Barshai on Brilliant. Does anyone have any of these sets and care to comment on them? Another I am curious about is the newer Michael Sanderling set, but I know nothing of the conductor other than that his father Kurt was a great conductor.

Furthermore, I need to get my hands on the cello concerti. I'm thinking of getting the Naxos disc with Maria Kliegel and Antoni Wit, as I'm a big fan of conductor and soloist alike – either that, or Heinrich Schiff/Maxim Shostakovich which also looks excellent. Has anyone been listening to these works lately? Do you have a favorite recording?

I don't always love the music of Shostakovich, but it has been sounding just right lately.

Of the three symphony sets: Slava, Barshai & Petrenko, honestly I prefer Petrenko.

[Karl Henning]

I have been receptive to the music of Shostakovich lately. The first violin concerto blew me away when I heard it the other day. Additionally I have been dipping into my complete string quartets set from the Pacifica Quartet, an amazing cycle which also contains a few quartets by such other Soviet composers as Schnittke, Prokofiev, Myaskovsky, and Weinberg. I especially love the 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th quartets. I can't believe how many great ones he wrote.

The symphonies have been more elusive to me. I have listened to numerous times and enjoyed the 5th, I have seen the 7th live in concert but never listened to it again after that (it was pretty good, but one has to be in a mood for it), I really enjoy the 9th, and I've heard the 10th and found it very interesting, but I think I have a bad recording (Frank Shipway/Royal Philharmonic; it struck me as quite pedestrian the last time I listened). So what I think I need is a halfway decent complete set of the symphonies to work through. I'm down to three choices: Rostropovich on Warner, V. Petrenko on Naxos, and Barshai on Brilliant. Does anyone have any of these sets and care to comment on them? Another I am curious about is the newer Michael Sanderling set, but I know nothing of the conductor other than that his father Kurt was a great conductor.

Furthermore, I need to get my hands on the cello concerti. I'm thinking of getting the Naxos disc with Maria Kliegel and Antoni Wit, as I'm a big fan of conductor and soloist alike – either that, or Heinrich Schiff/Maxim Shostakovich which also looks excellent. Has anyone been listening to these works lately? Do you have a favorite recording?

I don't always love the music of Shostakovich, but it has been sounding just right lately.

Another piece you should run, not walk to hear, is the piano trio.

[Roasted Swan]

"Awful"? What's wrong with the 12th symphony? I've never heard it. Too "propagandistic"?

I never realized that about each quartet being in a different key. That's very interesting.

Thanks for the link to that site! I'll be exploring this.

I listened to quartet no.1 this morning, an old recording by the Beethoven Quartet. This quartet never left much impression on me until today's listen, but I really enjoyed it. Short and sweet. The Beethoven Quartet also made an amazing recording, with the composer on piano, of the great Piano Quintet, one of his greatest chamber works, I think. Interestingly, it was written (or at least published) before all but one of the quartets. Anyway, that recording is worth a listen.

I also yesterday ordered a CD with the Borodin Trio performing two Shostakovich chamber works, the 2nd piano trio and the piano quintet, on Chandos. Very excited to get it! I've heard their performance of the quintet before and loved it.

Any opinions on Shostakovich's non-SQ chamber works? Either the two I mentioned or others? I still have yet to hear all of the symphonies, of course, but where Shostakovich seems to shine the brightest is with his chamber music.

Saying Symphony 12 is "awful" is such a given amongst music connoisseurs.  Why quaff on a rustic red when you could be drinking Lafitte '58 (or whatever!) all the time.  DSCH more than just about any other composer I know was a bellweather for the time/place the music was written.  For sure its easy to musically analyse this or that work and declare it "better" than another.  But that is to miss the point of DSCH - his music does not exist in some abstracted non-subjective vacuum.  Some is the private DSCH some is the more public face - but they are sides of the same coin and thereby of interest at least.   We admire Soviet Agitprop art for what it is - why not music too?

[vers la flamme]

Of the three symphony sets: Slava, Barshai & Petrenko, honestly I prefer Petrenko.

I think Petrenko will be the one. Probably going to order it within the week.

I have heard the piano trio before and I endorse your wholehearted recommendation for it, but I don't have it on CD. This is going to change when I get the Borodin Trio CD in the mail with the piano trio and piano quintet 

[staxomega]

In Op. 87 I managed to listen to up the 4th Fugue from Boris Petrushansky, he is damn good. In Prelude No. 3 I was quite impressed by the very clear articulation between the powerful/dynamic playing of the left hand and concise, gentle playing of the right. And Prelude No. 4 had loads of the imminent pathos. There is a certain effortlessness to his playing that makes me want to keep listening.