Dmitri's Dacha

Started by karlhenning, April 09, 2007, 08:13:49 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Madiel on February 11, 2022, 03:56:14 AM
Scherbakov seems to be one of the pianists who gets tricked by the wrong metronome marking on the first fugue, and follows his eyes instead of his ears, though he's uncomfortable enough about the metronome marking to be a bit faster than those who try to follow the wrong marking religiously.

It's Nikolayeva who is in the right ballpark, though she's a little faster than most other 'right' pianists.

I still have 4 prelude & fugue recordings to test out when I can focus on it. Maybe in the new house...
Is there some confusion about how they were marked or errors created in the copies or changes by the composer?  Don't know the story here.

PD

Madiel

#2861
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 11, 2022, 04:20:51 AM
Is there some confusion about how they were marked or errors created in the copies or changes by the composer?  Don't know the story here.

PD

There are misprints in the printed editions, at least the initial ones and I'm not sure how many got corrected. One of the things that is widely regarded as a misprint is on the first fugue, where it had a crotchet/quarter note=92 for the tempo marking and it should have been a minim/half note=92, because the fugue is written in 2/2 not 4/4. So while Shostakovich himself acknowledged that his metronome markings were a rough guide only, the 'rough guide' that was printed ended up being half the speed that it should have been.

If you follow the misprinted metronome marking, what you get is not remotely Moderato. Not if you have 2 beats per bar like you're supposed to. Sure, it would get you Moderato in 4/4, but the piece isn't in 4/4.
Nobody has to apologise for using their brain.

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Madiel on February 11, 2022, 04:35:25 AM
There are misprints in the printed editions, at least the initial ones and I'm not sure how many got corrected. One of the things that is widely regarded as a misprint is on the first fugue, where it had a crotchet/quarter note=92 for the tempo marking and it should have been a minim/half note=92, because the fugue is written in 2/2 not 4/4. So while Shostakovich himself acknowledged that his metronome markings were a rough guide only, the 'rough guide' that was printed ended up being half the speed that it should have been.

If you follow the misprinted metronome marking, what you get is not remotely Moderato. Not if you have 2 beats per bar like you're supposed to. Sure, it would get you Moderato in 4/4, but the piece isn't in 4/4.
Ah, thanks for the explanation.

PD

Brahmsian


Karl Henning

Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 08, 2022, 06:47:44 AM
Just purchased:







Cool, Ray! I've been curious about The Bedbug forever!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Symphonic Addict

I've come to think the 14th in G minor like his most "Brittenian". Not even Mahlerian. There is something most bittersweet here and of chamber proportions.

That very symphony is playing here, under Kondrashin. Supremely powerful.
The current annihilation of a people on this planet (you know which one it is) is the most documented and at the same time the most preposterously denied. The terror IS REAL!

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 08, 2022, 08:45:42 PM
I've come to think the 14th in G minor like his most "Brittenian". Not even Mahlerian. There is something most bittersweet here and of chamber proportions.

That very symphony is playing here, under Kondrashin. Supremely powerful.

The 14th has become a favorite of mine over the past few years. I used to not be too keen on it, but I find it to be powerfully expressive and alluring nowadays. Yes, Britten certainly comes to mind here in some of the movements.

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 08, 2022, 09:03:07 PM
The 14th has become a favorite of mine over the past few years. I used to not be too keen on it, but I find it to be powerfully expressive and alluring nowadays. Yes, Britten certainly comes to mind here in some of the movements.

It's the only one that I hardly know at all  :o
Must rectify that.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Madiel

14th is one of the best in my opinion. Symphony, song cycle... whatever it is, it's a fine work.
Nobody has to apologise for using their brain.

vandermolen

Quote from: Madiel on March 09, 2022, 12:54:04 AM
14th is one of the best in my opinion. Symphony, song cycle... whatever it is, it's a fine work.
Good to know - thanks.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

relm1

I am looking forward to a performance of No. 10 this weekend.  So nice to be attending concerts again. :)

bhodges

Quote from: relm1 on March 09, 2022, 05:27:31 AM
I am looking forward to a performance of No. 10 this weekend.  So nice to be attending concerts again. :)

Envious! Such a powerful work, heard in person. (And agree about attending concerts.) Who is performing it?

--Bruce

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on March 09, 2022, 12:33:17 AM
It's the only one that I hardly know at all  :o
Must rectify that.

Yes, you must give it another listen, Jeffrey. Give the Haitink or Barshai performance a listen.

Karl Henning

Quote from: relm1 on March 09, 2022, 05:27:31 AM
I am looking forward to a performance of No. 10 this weekend.  So nice to be attending concerts again. :)

Fabulous! I first heard the Tenth live, played by the Clevelanders!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Leo K.



Listening to the 14th Symphony today with my mind on a lot of sad things. What a testament this work remains, and vastly powerful. This Rostropovich recording is amazing. Those strings, those castanets and xylophone!

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 09, 2022, 07:18:32 AM
Yes, you must give it another listen, Jeffrey. Give the Haitink or Barshai performance a listen.
Will do John - thanks for the recommendations.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

LKB

Quote from: vandermolen on March 18, 2022, 03:27:30 PM
Will do John - thanks for the recommendations.

+1

I've always had a lot of respect for Haitink's Shostakovich. His takes on the various symphonies may not have been the most impassioned, but listening to his recordings of 5, 11 and 13 with the RCO frequently leave me thinking that he was leading the finest orchestra in the world.
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

relm1

Quote from: Brewski on March 09, 2022, 07:08:03 AM
Envious! Such a powerful work, heard in person. (And agree about attending concerts.) Who is performing it?

--Bruce

It was the LA Philharmonic.  Fantastic performance!  The audience was still filling in when I took the picture, so it wasn't as sparse as it seems.  Every work received an instant standing ovation.  I was just two or three rows behind the percussion, and I forgot how loud percussion is in this symphony but it was a wonderful experience played with power and precision. 

bhodges

Quote from: relm1 on March 19, 2022, 05:47:40 AM
It was the LA Philharmonic.  Fantastic performance!  The audience was still filling in when I took the picture, so it wasn't as sparse as it seems.  Every work received an instant standing ovation.  I was just two or three rows behind the percussion, and I forgot how loud percussion is in this symphony but it was a wonderful experience played with power and precision.

OK, now I'm really envious! Disney Hall is one of my favorite venues in the world (after going about a dozen times when it opened). Big fan of Ludovic Morlot, too. And coincidentally, I'm hearing Sergio Tiempo soon, here in Philadelphia. Alas, he's not playing Prokofiev, nor the Ginastera originally programmed, but the Chopin No. 1 (which I don't care for).

Anyway, thanks for sharing the experience, and the great photo. The interior of the hall is stunning.

--Bruce