Mendelssohn vs. Schoenberg

[karlhenning]

Comparative vs. Superlative

[Saul]

Comparative vs. Superlative

A genius VS. An incompetent

[cosmicj]

Two composers who did their best work earlier in life.  Unusual pattern. 

[bhodges]

A genius VS. An incompetent

So...great orchestras all over the world, led by some of the most brilliant conductors around, have all been duped, bamboozled, hoodwinked--playing music by this "incompetent"?   

--Bruce

[Saul]

So...great orchestras all over the world, led by some of the most brilliant conductors around, have all been duped, bamboozled, hoodwinked--playing music by this "incompetent"?   

--Bruce

I think youre catching up...

[PaulR]

So...great orchestras all over the world, led by some of the most brilliant conductors around, have all been duped, bamboozled, hoodwinked--playing music by this "incompetent"?   

--Bruce

We should tell them to stop playing Mendelssohn.  Too stop them from looking foolish.   

[karlhenning]

So...great orchestras all over the world, led by some of the most brilliant conductors around, have all been duped, bamboozled, hoodwinked--playing music by this "incompetent"?   

--Bruce

Smiling throughout Saul's absurd railing, because I remember vividly the two seasons when Levine's programming with the BSO was dominated by twin geniuses: Beethoven and Schoenberg.

You know, it's just possible that Levine has a better sense than Saul of what "an incompetent composer" might be ; )

[bhodges]

Smiling throughout Saul's absurd railing, because I remember vividly the two seasons when Levine's programming with the BSO was dominated by twin geniuses: Beethoven and Schoenberg.

Yes, that programming said a lot.  Our mutual friend Charles still talks about the all-Schoenberg evening he went to.

You know, it's just possible that Levine has a better sense than Saul of what "an incompetent composer" might be[/font] ; )

Wha--really??  No way...I don't believe it.



--Bruce

[Elgarian]

Just popping in to point out that if it is a comparison of only two, it is to find the greater. You need three to find the greatest.

This is the greatest linguistically analytical post so far in this thread.

[knight66]

Yes, despite it being utterly irrelevant to the topic in any useful way, I acknowledge it is a truly great post. 

Mike

[SonicMan46]

Oh, Dave - you've done it again! 

Now, what do I want, an apple or an orange - a glass of wine or a beer? Jeez, I like both of those two options and just cannot decide @ the moment - what am I eating?  That may help -    Dave

[kishnevi]

Let's see.  A composer whose every composition I've heard to date I like against--a composer of whom I've ever heard one work I like, and no other works that I'd like to hear again.

No contest.  Verklarte Nacht is great, but despite his importance in the history of music, that's the only thing of Schoenberg's I like.

[Saul]

Let's see.  A composer whose every composition I've heard to date I like against--a composer of whom I've ever heard one work I like, and no other works that I'd like to hear again.

No contest.  Verklarte Nacht is great, but despite his importance in the history of music, that's the only thing of Schoenberg's I like.

Be prepared to be attacked by the 'Intellectuals'...

[Bulldog]

Tough choice to make, but Schoenberg is more up my alley than Mendelssohn.  Also, when I think Schoenberg, Zemlinsky comes to mind (and I really like Zemlinsky's music).

[False_Dmitry]

It is a mark of how little attention I pay to Schoenberg that when you said "Arnold" here, first I thought, "But Malcolm Arnold wasn't an option in the poll!" And then I thought, "Neither was Arnold Bax." And then, "Maybe it's a Schwarzenegger joke." Followed at last by, "...Oh."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Arnold_(composer)
Samuel Arnold, English composer. Wrote the music for INKLE & YARICO, one of the first operas to treat the topic of interracial marriage (and the slave-trade) seriously.  A fine piece of music, too.

[Mirror Image]

No contest.  Verklarte Nacht is great, but despite his importance in the history of music, that's the only thing of Schoenberg's I like.

Have you heard "Gurrelieder" or "Pelleas und Melisande"? These are early tonal works that are quite good. I enjoy both of his "Chamber Symphonies," "Variations for Orchestra," and, of course, "Verklarte Nacht (version for string orchestra)."

I'm quite fond of some of Mendelssohn's works like "Symphony No. 3," all of his concerti, "A Mid Summer's Night Dream," and "Hebrides Overture," but that's about it for me. I don't put Mendelssohn up on a pedestal. Schoenberg, on the other hand, was a genius. He virtually created his own genre of music and he revolutionized music in the 20th Century and ushered a much needed change. While Schoenberg is far from my favorite composer, his importance and influence is much greater than Mendelssohn's.

[SonicMan46]

Tough choice to make, but Schoenberg is more up my alley than Mendelssohn.  Also, when I think Schoenberg, Zemlinsky comes to mind (and I really like Zemlinsky's music).

OH, Don - so you want a beer rather than a glass of wine!    Dave

[Lethevich]

Have you heard "Gurrelieder" or "Pelleas und Melisande"? These are early tonal works that are quite good. I enjoy both of his "Chamber Symphonies," "Variations for Orchestra," and, of course, "Verklarte Nacht (version for string orchestra)."

I just listened to friede auf erden - I can't imagine this not pleasing any fan of late Romanticism either. It has a few scary harmonies, but late Romanticism is riddled with them anyway.

[Mirror Image]

I just listened to friede auf erden - I can't imagine this not pleasing any fan of late Romanticism either. It has a few scary harmonies, but late Romanticism is riddled with them anyway.

I don't see how anyone could not like these early tonal works of Schoenberg. They're steeped in the German Romantic tradition. Thick harmonies and orchestration abound. Deep melodies that cry out into the night. Quite beautiful music indeed.

[kishnevi]

Have you heard "Gurrelieder" or "Pelleas und Melisande"? These are early tonal works that are quite good. I enjoy both of his "Chamber Symphonies," "Variations for Orchestra," and, of course, "Verklarte Nacht (version for string orchestra)."

I'm quite fond of some of Mendelssohn's works like "Symphony No. 3," all of his concerti, "A Mid Summer's Night Dream," and "Hebrides Overture," but that's about it for me. I don't put Mendelssohn up on a pedestal. Schoenberg, on the other hand, was a genius. He virtually created his own genre of music and he revolutionized music in the 20th Century and ushered a much needed change. While Schoenberg is far from my favorite composer, his importance and influence is much greater than Mendelssohn's.

Gurrelieder--heard, not impressed by it.  Of course, that was quite some many years ago, so I might have a different reaction now.
Pelleas--did he write one, too?  Obviously never heard that one.  Nor the work Lethe mentioned. 
But his later music--sorry, but anything that gives me headaches (which much of non-tonal music does) is not going to get my vote.
I did mention "his importance in the history of music" in my first comment--no denying he was influential.  But influential and great are not the same thing.   For example, Fux.
And don't belittle Mendelssohn's influence as origin of the Bach revival and director of the Gewandhaus. 
The one type of music I'm most interested in of his is the string quartets, which I have yet to hear, but want to at some point.  I've found that solo piano and small string ensembles work better for me in non-tonal music for some reason, so there is hope yet.