Chez Stravinsky

[snyprrr]

But . . . I'm not sure I understand it.

1) MusicMasters on the left, Koch the blob in the middle, Naxos on the right

I said there was a "mistake" that I "fixed", which includes the formatting, and that rogue "underline". Please disregard the big, wayward "underline", and try to see the "three branches" reaching down the page.

MusicMasters = V

Kochv = Vol

Naxos = #


Then, the color coding is simply to show where the same pieces end up. Most all vocal music has a "bold" and "glow", because I was running out of coloures.

BUT

MY POINT is- look at all the works that seem to have two actually separate recordings, such as 'Pulcinella', Symphony in C, Le Sacre, 'Dumbarton',... one with St.Lukes, the other with either the Philharmonia or the LSO.



OH,BTW- IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT ON YOUR PHONE, DON'T BOTHER, -i CHECKED, AND THE FORMATTING IS SO FD UP (whoops) that it becomes a Kandinsky.

If you look here on the computy, as I am, it looks readable even though the lining up is crooked. It's hard to make these kinds of charts on GMG, with the way the "effects" rock the formatting.

Please let me know if you're seeing the most readable version...

[snyprrr]

NY/SONY

/Erato

BerlinSO/DG


MirrorImage, you mentioned the Erato, -has anyone heard all three?

[Mahlerian]

/Erato

That recording is with the National Orchestra of France (and it's a good one).

[snyprrr]

Can you believe all the Strav has disappeared from 3-4 local libraries (only Rattle2CD). So, what has my Stravmania... what did they have today??...

Gurrelieder/Ozawa
Swan lake-Previn
Respighi- Boutique-Dutoit
Bartok-Mandarin0-Boulez/SONY
Debussy 2CD Decca Dutoit
Prokofiev 3/7 Karabits
Glas Music in 12 parts

I can see how the Strav affected the choices



No Strav at the library, mm mm mm...


All the local libraries have become what just seems like babysitter joints.... this county has always treated Classical in the American way, typical 1950s + major local Symphony/Star releases, which there haven't been any in a good long while. skynyrd, wooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

[Karl Henning]

...BUT

MY POINT is- look at all the works that seem to have two actually separate recordings, such as 'Pulcinella', Symphony in C, Le Sacre, 'Dumbarton',... one with St.Lukes, the other with either the Philharmonia or the LSO.

Ah, yes, indeed. And, you know, if I were not (happily) preoccupied with gearing up for tonight's concert, I'd get on the assignment of comparing, e.g., the earlier-&-later recordings of Le sacre. My recollection (subject to review) is that the Koch Symphony of Psalms is much an improvement on the Music Masters Vol. 1 performance.

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[snyprrr]

if I were not ....( I'd get on the assignment of comparing,

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we'll keep a light on for ya

NY/SONY

/Erato

BerlinSO/DG


MirrorImage, you mentioned the Erato, -has anyone heard all three?

and a 4th!!! with the NBC Orchestra!!!... interesting...

[snyprrr]

Stravinsky
Chailly
Nagano
Gardiner
Craft


They all say that only the IS is "perfect". The more I hear of this work, the more I understand that it is Mozatean, and I can hear how he simply molded all those lines into his own, mid-20th century, style. Reading the reviews and hearing these people argue about singers... SantaFe Listener surely has ideas... I wonder if it makes a difference.

Are there bits of TRP that snyprrr can enjoy, or will he still think he's listening to "opera"?? I even sped through 'Persephone' last night, more to my liking...

I'm going to have to pull the plug on this IS Mania here before I start obsessing on Operas,... really...


LE ROSSIGNOL- Boulez or Conlon???

[Karl Henning]

LE ROSSIGNOL- Boulez or Conlon???

You don't want to consider Craft?!   0:)

[asin]B000AMMSLM[/asin]

[Monsieur Croche]

It's actually... quite... beautiful ...

...in an OCD kinda way, maybe ;-)

[DaveF]

Maybe it was re-packaged by the re-seller?

It is a singular case of the composer mulling a serial variety of ensemble approaches, to a piece which is masterly in any version.

Donor in this case - but no, all the paper inserts are clearly right for the 2-CD case, so that end-on one half reads "STRAVINSKY: LES NOCES" and the other half "PÉTER EÖTVÖS".  Strange.  And the amazing thing about the 1917 version is how similar the orchestral sounds are to those of the percussion in the later version - the bell-strokes at the end are something like piccolo + triangle + tambourine.  As though he already had the percussion sounds in his head and was "orchestrating" them.

[ritter]

... with lots of interesting information about abandoned other versions.  Apparently IS was planning one including pianola and cimbaloms.

Sorry, Dave, I missed this post of yours.

Actually, IS managed to complete scenes 1 and 2 of this "intermediate" (1919) version. The problem was the synchronizing of the pianola with the rest of the performers (well, I suppose the composer should have seen that one coming from the beginning  ). The good news is that Robert Craft and René Bosc recorded what's available of this 1919 version (the latter using some MiDi technology in lieu of the pianola)...

[snyprrr]

Mass (1948)

So, we're gearing on down here, and it's time to crack open the 'Sacred Works', which I've managed to hold at bay during this process. First up is the 'Mass', which, as I recall, is the most "boring" of the big Choral Works. So, am I ready? OK, here goes...


Wow, well, I kind of didn't expect that. First, I was much more attuned to accepting the piece, but, then, I was expecting a very strict, Latin-like monotony, but, I was surprised at the get-go by the instrumental introduction followed by the Kyrie. Then, wow, the Gloria blew my socks off (Karl), with such wonderful voices. And so on, I was mightily impressed that I enjoyed the piece immensely! Waddaya know?

I really like the 1960 sound, the performance, and the understated quality- with, again, a very up front recording. But, I thought I might find a "better" one out there on YT. Well, Bernstein didn't really cut it, the Pokrovsky was very earthy (EDIT(that was actually Reuss performance) and a nice foil to the 1960, and the Craft sounded very much like the 1960 but with... well, I'm not going to say "better" sound, because the bald 1960 sound really is the white stone cold truth of it all. I'm not sure how I would take to the Hyperion disc's legendary hall of mirrors sound...


The Dove Descending

Had it on repeat for the last twenty minutes... as a Serial (is it?, right) Work, one can really just play it over and over... niiice

[Mirror Image]

Mass (1948)

So, we're gearing on down here, and it's time to crack open the 'Sacred Works', which I've managed to hold at bay during this process. First up is the 'Mass', which, as I recall, is the most "boring" of the big Choral Works. So, am I ready? OK, here goes...


Wow, well, I kind of didn't expect that. First, I was much more attuned to accepting the piece, but, then, I was expecting a very strict, Latin-like monotony, but, I was surprised at the get-go by the instrumental introduction followed by the Kyrie. Then, wow, the Gloria blew my socks off (Karl), with such wonderful voices. And so on, I was mightily impressed that I enjoyed the piece immensely! Waddaya know?

I really like the 1960 sound, the performance, and the understated quality- with, again, a very up front recording. But, I thought I might find a "better" one out there on YT. Well, Bernstein didn't really cut it, the Pokrovsky was very earthy and a nice foil to the 1960, and the Craft sounded very much like the 1960 but with... well, I'm not going to say "better" sound, because the bald 1960 sound really is the white stone cold truth of it all. I'm not sure how I would take to the Hyperion disc's legendary hall of mirrors sound...


The Dove Descending

Had it on repeat for the last twenty minutes... as a Serial (is it?, right) Work, one can really just play it over and over... niiice

There's a nicely performed Mass on this disc:

[DaveF]

The good news is that Robert Craft and René Bosc recorded what's available of this 1919 version (the latter using some MiDi technology in lieu of the pianola)...

So they did, thank you.  Looks to be just as rare now as the Eötvös - although Qobuz have it as a high-res or CD-quality download.  I may just grab the two Noces movements, which are available individually.

[snyprrr]

Boulez Box and Rattle Symphonies fiiinally arrived... oh, giggles... listening to the middle movement of '3 Movements' in both first- don't want to go too fast... both recordings (in the middle/last mvmts) sounding as transparent as one could want, performances of no questioning. Maazel as good.

I'm holding off on 'Psalms' for wine+cheese night...

[snyprrr]

I think I can finally make peace with Symphony of Psalms. I just heard the samples of Herreweghe's Pentatone recording and... and... and... I can hear everything I want to hear in the intro- the whooping horn- and I can hear the oboe solo into the abyss pretty well. AND the pianos are up front! For the first time ever?? It really adds a new sound here.

Anyhow, I think this might be the 'Psalms' for me.




I'm also reevaluating the Simon Preston- those boys' voices really do make a difference (especially in the 'Mass').

[arpeggio]

I think I can finally make peace with Symphony of Psalms. I just heard the samples of Herreweghe's Pentatone recording and... and... and... I can hear everything I want to hear in the intro- the whooping horn- and I can hear the oboe solo into the abyss pretty well. AND the pianos are up front! For the first time ever?? It really adds a new sound here.

Anyhow, I think this might be the 'Psalms' for me.




I'm also reevaluating the Simon Preston- those boys' voices really do make a difference (especially in the 'Mass').

What about the contrabassoon 

[snyprrr]

Ebony Concerto (1945)

I held off on this until the BoulezBox arrived, which it finally did. Wow, yea, this is actually a very very modern sounding piece, would you call it "cubist"? I think this is the direction Xenakis was heading in- had he lived his last piece would sound just like the EC, imo. Anyhow, sometimes it sounds like IS is building with building blocks, with crayon colors, very bold- maybe like a Kandinsky? A very visual/colorful sounding piece with block/smack rhythms.

What would you say about it? Quite unique, I think...



(also, Boulez's 'Dumbarton' is certainly the most x-rayed I heard, perfect tempo in the 1st, who could ask for more?- oh wait, I could- the only thing missing is the woodsy flavor 'Dumbarton OAKS'- Boulez is timbre perfect, I'd like to hear some more fruitiness in the winds and some more string fluff. Perhaps Marriner or Davis will have a more... British?, old-timey feel? Might have to hear IS here (though, his Italian recording is waaay too fast in the 1st))

What about the contrabassoon 

obviously the samples don't go to the last note... hopefully it's on YT... yea, I mean, I'm now audition 'Psalms' recordings simply by playing the first "hit" just to hear the placement of the orchestra and the amount of ambience between instrument and mic. No one yet is as up front as IS, but Herreweghe is judged pretty well (I still can't get over how far away Chailly sounds). I'm quite hesitant about listening to these Boulez and Rattle versions... gulp...

ACTUALLY- 'arpeggio'- listen to the Barenboim on YT- I thought I heard detail a little better in that Erato recording, and, Barenboim doesn't really seem to get in the way there. Maybe not a classic recording, but it may be a DarkHorse.

[snyprrr]

Anyhow, I'm really enjoying my IggyManiaCycle. I can hear how he composes now; I was somewhat dismissive of much IS, but now I'm coming away with almost every work being a groundbreaking masterpiece. I seem to get more worldly knowledge studying him, as opposed to the more non-social Webern (for instance- on a humanitarian level of course, not musically).

I wish I actually had something to say- lol, I'm just passing on my "good feelings, man", haha.


Really enjoyed Haitink's 'Scenes de Ballet' with Berlin. This was a matter of "believing", and I just knew i would get something out of this. MTT's 'Stravinsky in Hollywood' is great 'n' all, but with Philips you don't get a lot of unnecessary ambience, just the band playing perfectly in perfect sound- I almost wish my whole "Box" could be made up of non-Karajan Berlin recordings (though, I just heard his 'Circus Polka' and, lol, it sounds like a nazi goof march, hilarious- "tick tock tick tock"). Anyhow, if you want the absolute best 'Scenes', I'd really think about that 1991 Haitink.

[Karl Henning]

Boulez Box and Rattle Symphonies fiiinally arrived... oh, giggles... listening to the middle movement of '3 Movements' in both first- don't want to go too fast... both recordings (in the middle/last mvmts) sounding as transparent as one could want, performances of no questioning. Maazel as good.

I'm holding off on 'Psalms' for wine+cheese night...

Very good.

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