Chez Stravinsky

[Mahlerian]

Here's my cow with Stravinsky's so-called "neo-classical" period:

Most of it does not sound even remotely "neo-classical", there is so much polytonality, bits of sharp dissonance, metric modulation, odd time signatures and even sometimes polyrhythms. Of course you can tell that it is influenced in particular by the classical era, but come on it's far cry from "neo-classical" 

But an influence from the Classical era spiked with a modern language is precisely the definition of neoclassical music.

[snyprrr]

2 Poems de Paul Verlaine
2 Poems of Konstantin Bal'mont
3 Japanese Lyrics
3 Little Songs
Pribaoutki
Berceuses du chat
4 "Russian" Songs
Tilim-bom
Song of Parasha

Today I finally heard the songs up to 1920's '4 Russian Songs'. Well, I certainly didn't know the accompanying music was so Modernist. Would it be Cubist? Or was that later? Anyhow, 4-5 sets of songs all around 1-2 minutes, very nice- I surprised that I wasn't offended, lol. But you really need these songs to flesh out his Chamber Music.

The Shakespeare, Dylan Thomas, and JFK all belong to the later...

[Karl Henning]

The Song of Parasha is from Mavra, of course.

[Monsieur Croche]

Here's my cow with Stravinsky's so-called "neo-classical" period:

Most of it does not sound even remotely "neo-classical", there is so much polytonality, bits of sharp dissonance, metric modulation, odd time signatures and even sometimes polyrhythms. Of course you can tell that it is influenced in particular by the classical era, but come on it's far cry from "neo-classical" 

You do know the neoclassical moniker was spawned by Stravinsky's Pulcinella, that it is an early 20th century musicological neologism, ergo, it includes all those modernisms as defined?  It also is very much about harmony not used as per the old common practice 'function.'

But I am with you as far as its being, yet again as a term coined by a reviewer, writer, some such, as misleading.  The style would most appropriately be called neobaroque, since that era is where I.S. and most other neoclassical compers turned to for forms.  Bohuslav Martinů and a few others also used Renaissance forms (about which Webern, too, was well informed:-) There is little or none of the neoclassical all redolent of the height of the classical era, either procedures or forms.

My pet peeve is where the pop music genre label makers have appropriated 'neoclassical' from the classical lexicon of terms while ignoring its actual meaning as defined, instead referring to any pop music that remotely has the sound of 'classical chord progression' as 'neoclasical,' lol.  Of course, the exponential rate of genres and sub-genres in pop music is so rapid that 'they' do have to grasp at straws in order to come up with some new defining terms. 

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Stravinsky is one of those composers whose neoclassical period often leaves me cold. Of course, the music written before it, is astonishing.

[Karl Henning]

One of my favorite Stravinsky pieces, period:

http://www.youtube.com/v/LudJWiMmZBY

[Karl Henning]

And with score:

http://www.youtube.com/v/DFTszVZ0v34

[snyprrr]

And with score:

http://www.youtube.com/v/DFTszVZ0v34

two different works Karl? Ginko is your friend

[Karl Henning]

two different works Karl?

That's right 

[snyprrr]

The Song of Parasha is from Mavra, of course.

of course

Listened to a couple of minutes of the Porkovsky(?) 'Les Noces'... aye aye aye, my ears!!... lol, wow,... no... I can't take it (runs screaming from the room)... it's a weapon!!... sooo hallucinatory and cartoonish it could drive one mad... Bernstein sounds like patty-cake by comparison... it's like an enema with akvavit!!!!

Stravinsky is one of those composers whose neoclassical period often leaves me cold. Of course, the music written before it, is astonishing.

a

Stravinsky is one of those composers whose neoclassical period often leaves me cold. Of course, the music written before it, is astonishing.

Apollo and Orpheus leave you cold? And the Symphonies? Of course, Pulcinella is a different story...


btw- So- Pulcinella IS the ONLY place one will find Stravinsky "wig music"? I mean, THAT FORM of NeoClassicism... obviously 'Le Baiser' is modeled on a different type of re"hash", and the 'Dumbarton' is Bach, and The Rake is "elizabethan", ... and then the Mass would be NeoSacred...

My point is- "NeoClassicism" doesn't necessarily mean it HAS to sound like faux Bach (but, it mostly does- and then when The Beatles et al did it they used the harpsichord to strengthen the idea (and the costumes)

NeoClassicism in Pop really only lasted one year, eh? 1967-


I'm just saying there's IS NeoClass I like (Apollo), and some I don't (Pulcinella)... it's the "obvious" kind (the latter) that always seems to grate (cue some Martinu...)


I do think IS can be credited for re-inventing the C chord (with those splayed dispositions).

That's right 

par for the course

I MUST draw your attention to the Alexej Gorlatch SONY release of the Piano Concerto and Capriccio. It IS the best I've ever heard... the sound... and his playing is phenomenal for the pieces... oh, the winds in the PC can all be heard for a change... anyhow, had to gush

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Apollo and Orpheus leave you cold? And the Symphonies? Of course, Pulcinella is a different story...

Often leaves me cold. I like Orpheus and Symphony in three movements.

[North Star]

Often leaves me cold. I like Orpheus and Symphony in three movements.

Tried Duo concertant?

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Yes. Did not make much of an impression on me.

[Karl Henning]

of course

Listened to a couple of minutes of the [Pokrovsky] 'Les Noces'... aye aye aye, my ears!!... lol, wow,... no... I can't take it (runs screaming from the room)... it's a weapon!!... sooo hallucinatory and cartoonish it could drive one mad... Bernstein sounds like patty-cake by comparison... it's like an enema with akvavit!!!!

FTFY . . . your ears are right, here, and an enema with akvavit is a phrase which will endure in musicological circles as long as Les noces is discussed . . . .

[Karl Henning]

Often leaves me cold. I like Orpheus and Symphony in three movements.

Well, all right!

[snyprrr]

I would get RP just to hear some IS harpsichord. I just noticed that the instrumentation for RP is very "Mozart", and I know it's based on such things. Is the music really sooooo conservative?

The more I keep trying to talk myself into his Operas the more I resist. I think I'm there and then I refresh my memory on YT and realize I don't want. Just don't want.

[snyprrr]

L'Histoire du Soldat

Eh, I'm just not warming up to this trumpet/violin/bass drum idiom. The only part that spoke to me was the slow clarinet movement. The rest sounds like... Fellini? That off-beat bass drum just reminds me of oom-pah... the only version that had a truly scintillating trumpet was the Cocteau, but I'm definitely not ready for the full monty here.

I have Boulez and Maazel, and both sound about the same. How can I expect any other to open this up for me? It's still going to be the same movements... maybe I've heard too many "devil and the musician" things to want to hear more of that.

What? Would I like 'Wozzeck'? Isn't that like Soldiers Tale+Petrouchka??

anyhow...

[Mirror Image]

Yes. Did not make much of an impression on me.

Stick to Wagner then. Problem solved.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

I never said I don't like Stravinsky's music, merely that I don't like every single work that he ever wrote. He is one of my favorite Russian composers.

[Mirror Image]

I never said I don't like Stravinsky's music, merely that I don't like every single work that he ever wrote. He is one of my favorite Russian composers.

Take it easy, man. I'm joking around with you.