Chez Stravinsky

[sul G]

Stravinsky's Violin Concerto is fast becoming one of my favorites of all violin concerti.  It may not be on the same grand scale as Beethoven's, Brahms' or Tchaikovsky, but there is just something unique about it.  I can't quite put my finger on it.

It strikes me that this 'can't quite put my finger on it' is one of Stravinsky's special qualities - his thought is so fleet-footed, he's so reluctant to linger on a beautiful idea but is always taking it to new places. (Like Beethoven, Stravinsky isn't really about the idea and more about the process.) So the music often escapes from the listener before its essence has quite been grasped, which means that he (well, me, anyway) keeps coming back for more.

[Mark G. Simon]

It strikes me that this 'can't quite put my finger on it' is one of Stravinsky's special qualities - his thought is so fleet-footed, he's so reluctant to linger on a beautiful idea but is always taking it to new places. (Like Beethoven, Stravinsky isn't really about the idea and more about the process.) So the music often escapes from the listener before its essence has quite been grasped, which means that he (well, me, anyway) keeps coming back for more.

The other part of this thought is that the ideas he doesn't linger on are so arresting  that you feel obliged to come back to them.

[ChamberNut]

The other part of this thought is that the ideas he doesn't linger on are so arresting  that you feel obliged to come back to them.

I think you're right.     I have to keep coming back to this Violin Concerto.  I like all of it, but particularly the arresting (if I can steal your word) third movement.  0:)

[Mark G. Simon]

Doesn't seem demeaning to me either. I'd be interested in some details in where you sense an influence. There is a famous similarity between the opening of the Serenade (1925) and the opening of Poulenc's Gloria (1959), but there is an pre-Serenade piano piece by Poulenc that I remember hearing (but at the moment,  not which, an intermezzo?) with roughly the same theme (you know how Poulenc recycled so much of his own music). Around that time, Stravinsky (like many others) wrote a lot of short piano pieces that remind me some of Poulenc and Satie, in part because of the genre, which I think attracted Stravinsky because there was a publishing market. After that publishing market fell off (due largely to proliferation of disc recording), he pretty much stopped writing little piano pieces. His first attempt at commercial recordings was of such pieces (unreleased Brunswicks, 1925), and the Serenade was written so that each mvt would fit on each side of a disc.'   

What I find remarkable is how often, and how brazenly Poulenc steals from Stravinsky. The Serenade in A/Gloria connection is one example. Somewhere in Dialogues of the Carmelites is a several measure chunk taken straight from Symphonies of Wind Instruments. There are others..

[Guido]

It strikes me that this 'can't quite put my finger on it' is one of Stravinsky's special qualities - his thought is so fleet-footed, he's so reluctant to linger on a beautiful idea but is always taking it to new places. (Like Beethoven, Stravinsky isn't really about the idea and more about the process.) So the music often escapes from the listener before its essence has quite been grasped, which means that he (well, me, anyway) keeps coming back for more.

I'm astounded at how accurately this summarises my feelings of his music (though would never have been able to say so consicely or eloquently). 0:) Cheers!

[karlhenning]

Rejoice in the Box!

[ChamberNut]

Rejoice in the Box!

That is one thing at least that you and James have in common - love for that "big box o' Stavinsky"! 

[karlhenning]

And the shades, don't forget the shades!

[karlhenning]

Just a bit of fun, really.

[Nick]

What are the opinions among Stravinskyites with regard to Rake's Progress?

I just don't find the work very interesting. Most of the rhythms don't hold any special appeal for me although they do in other Stravinsky works, and I've never found myself walking away and enjoying a good tune from this opera. Musically, some of the scenes (like that with the game of cards) seem to drag. The use of recitative seems a bit forced and awkward. I certainly wish we'd hear this less than the Cantata or Persephone, which hold much more appeal for me.

[karlhenning]

What are the opinions among Stravinskyites with regard to Rake's Progress?

I don't consider myself a Stravinskyite . . . but since I inaugurated this thread, I shall hazard some answer.

The first two or three times I heard the piece (incidents spread out over a couple of decades), it held no special appeal for me.  One of the drivers for my purchase of the Stravinsky's Own Box (although, face it, the price was right, and the historical/aesthetic interest sufficed) was, curiosity to see if the maestro's own recording of The Rake's Progress might illustrate the opera for me.  And, in fact, I do like much better (and think more highly of) the Progress as a consequence of listening to this performance.

I just don't find the work very interesting. Most of the rhythms don't hold any special appeal for me although they do in other Stravinsky works, and I've never found myself walking away and enjoying a good tune from this opera.

If you don't find it interesting, you don't (I didn't, particularly, the first several times, see above).

The fact of not finding oneself enjoying a good tune, is totally beside the point.  A good tune is only one of many possible indicators of musical excellence.  And there's a goodly amount of piffle in the world, which shows a good tune one may without cultural guilt enjoy.

Musically, some of the scenes (like that with the game of cards) seem to drag. The use of recitative seems a bit forced and awkward.

I think that's largely going to depend on the performance.  But, again, you offer your impressions (which as such, cannot be argued with, of course).  Your impressions of these elements could possibly change over time.

Myself, I have no trouble with either the scale/pace of the card game, nor with the deliberate (and, I think, charming) reference to recitativo secco.

I certainly wish we'd hear this less than the Cantata or Persephone, which hold much more appeal for me.

I can agree with a modification of this sentiment;  and I should rejoice in more frequent performances of both the Cantata and Perséphone.

[owlice]

What are the opinions among Stravinskyites with regard to Rake's Progress?

I dozed off during the DVD and will likely donate it to the local library; don't know whether I want to try another go at this work, or at least at this particular performance.

Re: the Violin Concerto, I'll be hearing that (1961 revision) next season with the Baltimore SO and happen to have a spare ticket so will be looking for a home for it next April. (Actually picked that more for the premiere of a new work -- Leshnoff Starburst -- but will be glad to hear Shaham in the VC.)

[matti]

Stravinskyite . . .

Ahh, that's Stravinsky gone all Lithuanian!

[karlhenning]

I dozed off during the DVD and will likely donate it to the local library . . . .

Just what local libraries need: more dozing  

[owlice]

Just what local libraries need: more dozing  

Now, now, SOMEone may like it!

I'd like to get a video of Oedipus Rex at some point, or better, see it live; I've stayed awake through that!

[karlhenning]

Now, now, SOMEone may like it!

Yes, one man's Gilda is another man's Micaela . . . .

[Nick]

Yeah, Oedipus Rex is more interesting to me. Nightingale is a total masterpiece. I assume there's lots of people here who will be out at the Gergiev Stravinsky festival next season?

Have any of you heard the narration for The Flood in that big old box of Stravinsky? It's very funny and slapstick. Some CD reviewer said, I think, "it is difficult to take the bald narrations seriously, particularly when Laurence Harvey sanctimoniously keeps talking of the will of 'Gud.'"

[karlhenning]

Well, The Flood was an experiment in many ways (and I, for one, find it artistically impressive and admirable for someone closing in on 80 years to take fresh risks).  The Stravinsky's Own rendition necessarily has a certain historical interest . . . but I do think that the Knussen recording is an improvement in certain crucial respects 

[karlhenning]

Probably I prefer the Craft recording of Threni, and the Jas O'Donnell recording of the Canticum sacrum;  they are expertly executed, inspiringly sharp, and in impeccable sound.  Still, the accounts in The Big Box are great in their own right.

[owlice]

Yeah, Oedipus Rex is more interesting to me.

Prokofiev, did you know of the thread on that work from the old forum? That thread was my introduction to the work.