Chez Stravinsky

[ChamberNut]

Chambernut, a ballet is both music and dancing right?  The suite is just the music.  Doesn't matter if the ballet is short or not, a ballet is for performance by orchestra+ballet company, the suite is for performance by orchestra only.

So what?  I listen to the music on a CD (don't care if there is dancing or not).  For the short ballets, I just really don't see the point, since they are almost the same length.

[DavidW]

So what?  I listen to the music on a CD (don't care if there is dancing or not).  For the short ballets, I just really don't see the point, since they are almost the same length.

You obviously did not get my point.  The point is that you can't call it a ballet if there are no dancers.  Even if the suite and the ballet are the same music note for note, they still are different.  Get it?

The suite is composed and published to have it performed in the concert hall.  It doesn't matter if it's made shorter, or played practically the same as the ballet.  Why publish a suite if the ballet is short?  The answer is dead simple-- to have it played in the concert hall.

[ChamberNut]

You obviously did not get my point.  The point is that you can't call it a ballet if there are no dancers.  Even if the suite and the ballet are the same music note for note, they still are different.  Get it?

The suite is composed and published to have it performed in the concert hall.  It doesn't matter if it's made shorter, or played practically the same as the ballet.  Why publish a suite if the ballet is short?  The answer is dead simple-- to have it played in the concert hall.

So when The Rite of Spring is played in concert (as it does all the time, but not necessarily as a ballet), it is just automatically called a suite?

[karlhenning]

No, a suite is always music taken from the complete work.

It may in some cases (L'oiseau de feu, Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet) also involved changes in scoring.

[DavidW]

So when The Rite of Spring is played in concert (as it does all the time, but not necessarily as a ballet), it is just automatically called a suite?

That's obviously not what I said, and now you're just being an argumentative dick.  There is nothing necessarily provocative about a suite being as long as the original work.

[karlhenning]

No inter-rodent fighting on the thread, please  0:)

[karlhenning]

The suite from Pulcinella also involves assigning vocal lines to instruments, to be sure.  Myself, I like having both the original, and the suite.

I should agree that the "suite" of Petrushka is not value added in that way.

[ChamberNut]

That's obviously not what I said, and now you're just being an argumentative dick.

Not trying to be, honestly.  Just trying to understand it. 

[Franco]

Not trying to be, honestly.  Just trying to understand it. 

It is easy to understand once you compare the suite with the uncut ballet music. Just listen to them back to back.

[Catison]

Anyone have a recommendation for the best Stravinsky biography for a first timer?  I love Stravinsky's music, but I have no knowledge of his life, and so it is hard for me to relate to his music.  I am thinking about checking out (or buying) a biography and going through all of his music.

[Catison]

It's in two volumes, which may disqualify it, but Steven Walsh's biography is comprehensive, it addresses the music, the personality and the times, and it is beautifully written. He judiciously says less than there is to say about Craft, which may be the only (probably necessary) shortcoming.

And may I second you comments about Sforzando.
'

I got the first volume from the library.  Looks very good.  I'll check back later!

[Herman]

Hi Brett. I have the two Walsh volumes, and I think that would be a little over the top at first. I also have the Stravinsky volume in the Master Musicians series, this one written by Paul Griffiths, and I'd recommend this one. It's not just a biography, but it discusses the compositions, too.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=paul+griffiths&bi=0&bx=off&ds=30&sortby=17&sts=t&tn=stravinsky&x=0&y=0

[Catison]

Hi Brett. I have the two Walsh volumes, and I think that would be a little over the top at first. I also have the Stravinsky volume in the Master Musicians series, this one written by Paul Griffiths, and I'd recommend this one. It's not just a biography, but it discusses the compositions, too.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=paul+griffiths&bi=0&bx=off&ds=30&sortby=17&sts=t&tn=stravinsky&x=0&y=0

I would take you up on your suggestion Herman, if only I didn't enjoy the Walsh so much.  There may be a lot of detail, but it is the kind of detail I like.  I was once a Russophile, and learning about Sankt Peterburg life before the revolution is wonderful.  And I didn't realize this before, but Stravinsky was present in some of my favorite composers' lives.  He was with the Russian Romantics, with Prokofiev in Paris, and with Schoenberg in Hollywood.  So learning so much about Stravinsky's life puts these other composers in context.  I love the prose of the book, too.

[karlhenning]

It really is a pleasure to read.

[MN Dave]

Why do we sp r ea d out the letters in our user names? 

[Herman]

I would take you up on your suggestion Herman, if only I didn't enjoy the Walsh so much.  [...]  I love the prose of the book, too.

Oh, then by all means proceed.

[Brahmsian]

Took a break from 'the big box', and now went back to it yesterday and today.

New discoveries (first listens) are:

Disc 11 - Miniature Masterpieces  (Loved all of these)
Disc 10 - Concerto for Piano and Wind Instruments, Capriccio for Piano and Orchestra (loved these)
Disc 10 - (5) Movements for Piano and Orchestra (did not enjoy)

The more I'm diving into this box, the following is becoming glaringly clear:

I virtually love to bits and pieces all of the works of Stravinsky's pre-serialist late phase.   
I do not enjoy the later works from the so called serialist stage.   

[karlhenning]

The Concerto for Piano & Winds is particularly tasty.

And the Big Box is always good to turn back to, aye.

[karlhenning]

I had some Stravinsky activity today, as well . . . from my first "load-up" onto my mp3 player, somehow several of the discs I first 'ripped' (what an unfortunate term) were marred by a loud glitch right at the end of each track.  I had re-loaded a number of these earlier, but I recently found (or, re-discovered) other music which it was necessary to re-load.  This included the  Jas O'Donnell/Westminster Cathedral Choir, City of London Sinfonia disc (on Hyperion) with the Symphony of Psalms, Mass, Canticum sacrum and the three motets.  Also, Wuorinen's Reliquary for Igor Stravinsky was similarly marred . . . and somehow (I guess that was early on, and I had no clear idea of capacity, so I was unnecessarily cautious) that was the only piece from the Knussen/London Sinfonietta disc I had loaded, so today I went ahead and loaded the whole enchilada.

[Catison]

I had some Stravinsky activity today, as well . . .

Me too.  Still reading and loving the biography.  I have been listening to some of the early works, including Op. 1 and Op. 3.