Help with Elgar's Second

[Todd]

I confess I'm not a big Elgar fan.  Until I bought the Adrian Boult twofer pictured above,* with recordings from the 70s, the last new Elgar disc I bought was the Violin Concerto with Hilary Hahn playing.  It had literally been years since I listened to any Elgar, and probably close on a decade since I last listened to the symphonies.  So this set was listened to with almost fresh ears.  The set ain't so bad in so far as the music catches my fancy.  To be honest, only two of the six works work for me – the Introduction and Allegro Op 47 and the Second Symphony.  The Second is quite good, and has made me think I should probably try one or two new versions. 

So, any suggestions for the Second Symphony for someone who is not much of an Elgarian?  All suggestions welcome.

*One brief rhetorical aside: why on earth did EMI end up recording the First Symphony in two different venues with different acoustics?

[Scarpia]

So, any suggestions for the Second Symphony for someone who is not much of an Elgarian?  All suggestions welcome.

You mean suggestions for recordings?  My reference is the Barbirolli recording on EMI (the later one, from the 60's, there is an earlier mono recording I don't enjoy as much).

[Bulldog]

Slatkin and/or C. Davis.  For a very different but compelling version, check out Sinopoli.

[mjwal]

I would second the Sinopoli, one of his psychograms like his first Schumann #2, but for the most exciting you have to brave the muddy sound of Boult's first recording with the BBC SO in 1944, which was available on a Beulah CD (I have the LP transfer) - costs over €30 now 
Barbirolli is rather indulgent but great. Downes on Naxos is not bad at all. I quite like the very cheap Menuhin/RPO, a Virgin twofer with #1 and a few marches.

[Lethevich]

Slatkin and/or C. Davis.  For a very different but compelling version, check out Sinopoli.

I had the opposite experience with Davis, at least his LSO Live version (I don't know if there are earlier ones, but presumably there are). It was rather slow, luxuriating in the sound, but kind of preaching to the converted in that sense...

[drogulus]

     Boult/Lyrita for both, Barbirolli/EMI for #1, Handley/EMI for #2.

     I see you are focusing on the 2nd. The Barbirolli/Hallé is a bit sloppy (indulgent?). The problem is that 1) it's the Hallé, OK?, and 2) it's recorded in the Abbey Road studio, and that means the orchestra is on the road, probably doing a London concert with a matching studio session. I'd love a Free Trade Hall recording of this work, but no luck.

[Sergeant Rock]

I had the opposite experience with Davis, at least his LSO Live version (I don't know if there are earlier ones, but presumably there are). It was rather slow, luxuriating in the sound, but kind of preaching to the converted in that sense...

That Davis isn't particularly slow, certainly not compared to Sinopoli:

                             I          II         III       IV
Davis                18:23   16:19    8:26   14:30    57:38

Sinopoli            20:43   18:25    9:00   17:14    65:22

Maybe you're thinking of Davis's LSO Live First? That really is perversely slow. Even I, who generally loves perversion in music, have trouble with it 

In reply to Todd: for something completely different I too recommend Sinopoli. Yes, he Mahlerizes Elgar but that's what makes his version interesting. (I'm shocked to see two other members recommend Sinopoli though. I thought I was the lone prophet here. Most Elgarians, especially British Elgarians, hate....I mean, really hate Sinopoli.)

Sarge

[mjwal]

I thought I was the lone prophet here. Most Elgarians, especially British Elgarians, hate....I mean, really hate Sinopoli. - Sarge

I was born in Britain - but I've been living abroad (Germany, France) for the last 40 years. They brainwashed me, y'know     (I keep dreaming of a Gielen version...)

[Todd]

Thanks for the suggestions.  It looks like the Sinopoli is worth hearing, even with the caveats about the timings and unconventional approach.  I wanted to get the Slatkin four disc set, but it is OOP and only available for silly money.  I did find used copies of the 2nd for not much money, though.  I think I'll try those, and if I still need more I'll go with Barbirolli.

[Scarpia]

see you are focusing on the 2nd. The Barbirolli/Hallé is a bit sloppy (indulgent?). The problem is that 1) it's the Hallé, OK?, and 2) it's recorded in the Abbey Road studio, and that means the orchestra is on the road, probably doing a London concert with a matching studio session. I'd love a Free Trade Hall recording of this work, but no luck.

I regard Barbirolli's Elgar 2 as one of the finest recordings ever made.  It is hard for me to understand that it has "problems."

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I like the Solti, but true "Elgarians" will probably say it is not "idiomatic" enough, or whatever. It's true that it doesn't sound much like Barbi or Boult or A. Davis (fast tempi, not much rubato, downplays the "noble" element). Still, this disciplined approach works for me.

[drogulus]

I regard Barbirolli's Elgar 2 as one of the finest recordings ever made.  It is hard for me to understand that it has "problems."

      I know what you mean. It's hard for me to understand this as a finest recording. You're lucky, though, I'd much rather hear it your way, being a kind of Barbirolli nut.

[Scarpia]

      I know what you mean. It's hard for me to understand this as a finest recording. You're lucky, though, I'd much rather hear it your way, being a kind of Barbirolli nut.

Oh well, I guess to be on the safe side, I'm advised to wait until memory of your comments fade before listening again.   

[drogulus]

     Yeah, don't listen to me!

[Sergeant Rock]

I like the Solti

I do too even though it is very different than my favorite Sinopoli and Tate. In fact I like all Solti's Elgar, including the Violin Concerto with Chung. Elgarian convinced me of how special Bean's version is, and I would not want to be without it now, but if exiled to that desert island, I think I'd still take Chung and Solti.

Sarge

[Scarpia]

I do too even though it is very different than my favorite Sinopoli and Tate. In fact I like all Solti's Elgar, including the Violin Concerto with Chung. Elgarian convinced me of how special Bean's version is, and I would not want to be without it now, but if exiled to that desert island, I think I'd still take Chung and Solti.

Sarge

Solti certainly cleaned the cobwebs out of Elgar's symphonies, but my personal impression is that he overdid it.  The Violin Concerto is another thing entirely.  I think Solti was appropriately sensitive in that recording (made many years later) and Chung was wonderful.

[Mirror Image]

My favorite Elgar conductors are Barbirolli, Handley, Andrew Davis, Sinopoli, and Colin Davis. I would suggest get every recording you can get your hands on that feature these conductors as they understand this music better than any other.

I haven't listened to Elgar in months, until today with Elgarian peaking my interest in this man's music once again. Try and seek out the Andrew Davis set and the Barbirolli:

[Elgarian]

Elgarian convinced me of how special Bean's version is, and I would not want to be without it now, but if exiled to that desert island, I think I'd still take Chung and Solti.

Obviously I need to work on you some more, Sarge.

Blah blah windflower blah blah Bean blah blah cadenza blah blah nobilmente  blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...

[Elgarian]

I regard Barbirolli's Elgar 2 as one of the finest recordings ever made.

I really like the idea of that, and in the absence of any certainty of my own, I'm happy to accept your judgement on it; but - and here's a confession - I don't think I understand the second symphony well enough to reach a decision about which recorded performance I'd recommend. I find the slow movement immensely moving, but I do tend to get lost elsewhere (it's not for want of trying, as you can imagine). The various recordings I have - Boult, Barbirolli, Andrew Davis, Colin Davis, Slatkin, even Elgar himself - all leave me a bit bewildered with regard to what it's all about.

There's a story about the first performance of the second symphony where the audience were distinctly lukewarm (big contrast to the rapturous applause that greeted the 1st), and Elgar turned to someone (Billy Reed I think) and said 'What's wrong with them? They're sitting there like a lot of stuffed pigs.' Or words to that effect. Well, I kind of understand the stuffed piggery side of it. Don't get me wrong - I listen to it with enjoyment; but I don't feel I can grasp it as a whole in the way I do most of his other major works.

[Sergeant Rock]

Obviously I need to work on you some more, Sarge.

Blah blah windflower blah blah Bean blah blah cadenza blah blah nobilmente  blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...

I did say I think I'd take Chung, meaning, I'm seriously considering, for the first time ever, another suitor. A few more blah blahs might just turn me 

Sarge