The GMG Peace Corps

[Saul]

After all the various bewildering arguments, controversies, insults, accusations, attacks, and denigrations, I believe it is time to create a thread here on GMG that will be a place of healing, bonding, and forgiving, for after all we have spend such a long time together here, and it is about time that we turn our heads at each other and say candidly, with a smile:

I want to Hug You!

Peace.

[greg]

Hey, gay. 

(just kidding)

Really, though, I'll never catch up to you in most threads made, now...

[Saul]

Hey, gay. 

(just kidding)

Really, though, I'll never catch up to you in most threads made, now...

It was a joke...

Don't take things so literally, Greg...

[greg]

After all the various bewildering arguments, controversies, insults, accusations, attacks, and denigrations, I believe it is time to create a thread here on GMG that will be a place of healing, bonding, and forgiving, for after all we have spend such a long time together here, and it is about time that we turn our heads at each other and say candidly, with a smile:

I want to cut your head open and eat your brains out with my bare hands while you slowly die, mother f***er!

Saul, how could you? 

[Saul]

Saul, how could you? 

lol

[Sid]

The problem with a few people is, that when giving criticism, they can't do it constructively. I would never say of another person's opinion, or composition, etc. that it's "rubbish." This is not only very rude but unintelligent. People like this have a cognitive inability to put up a coherent argument, so they substitute abuse. Often these people are quite narrow minded, and want to force their narrow mindedness and limitations on others. I just thank goodness that I am not one of these people. I don't come here to belittle others or show off my knowledge, etc. We are all limited in some way, no one can know everything. I actually enjoy the diversity of opinions, and I like to read people's opinions on things that I don't know that much about. That's how I learn. If I was as limited as some of these people, I would probably give up listening to classical altogether. I mean I don't want to listen to the music of one era only, or of a certain genre, to the exclusion of all else. If I don't get into a variety of music, I see myself as missing out on many good things. I just wish some people could be more positive and take on this kind of attitude. You never know what you might learn if you become a bit more flexible. Isn't life meant to be a journey?

...rant over...

[drogulus]

   

The problem with a few people is, that when giving criticism, they can't do it constructively. I would never say of another person's opinion, or composition, etc. that it's "rubbish." This is not only very rude but unintelligent. People like this have a cognitive inability to put up a coherent argument, so they substitute abuse. Often these people are quite narrow minded, and want to force their narrow mindedness and limitations on others. I just thank goodness that I am not one of these people. I don't come here to belittle others or show off my knowledge, etc. We are all limited in some way, no one can know everything. I actually enjoy the diversity of opinions, and I like to read people's opinions on things that I don't know that much about. That's how I learn. If I was as limited as some of these people, I would probably give up listening to classical altogether. I mean I don't want to listen to the music of one era only, or of a certain genre, to the exclusion of all else. If I don't get into a variety of music, I see myself as missing out on many good things. I just wish some people could be more positive and take on this kind of attitude. You never know what you might learn if you become a bit more flexible. Isn't life meant to be a journey?

...rant over...

      I'll try to be constructive.

     YYeeessss, that's all perfectly fine and there are many points where I'd like to see an injection of high grade civility, and without a doubt some posters are simply not capable of handling disagreement (in the form of being disagreed with) to such an extent that it renders any discussion unpleasant in the extreme. Yet...........there has to be a yet, right?.....some of these borderline nasty fights are well worth engaging in. Believe it or not, some ideas are worth defending, and human nature being what it is the argument will get nasty. It can be taken too far, I agree (someone said, so I'm agreeing). Let's let the Mods do their thing. My view is that telling people to "be nice" only has an effect on people who aren't that bad, and the really bad actors don't listen until a Mod steps in.

[Gurn Blanston]

Be nice, Ernie... 

I think that as a group, we mods let things go a long way before we step on them. We're interested in the results too, or contributing to their arrival. As long as people discuss ideas and not personalities, we mostly just let it go. But past history has proven beyond a doubt (look at all the posters you miss) that allowing people free rein to cyber-bully and "win" arguments by simply beating down the 'opposition' leads to a lack of diversity and new ideas that will inevitably snuff the forum.

[oabmarcus]

The problem with a few people is, that when giving criticism, they can't do it constructively. I would never say of another person's opinion, or composition, etc. that it's "rubbish." This is not only very rude but unintelligent. People like this have a cognitive inability to put up a coherent argument, so they substitute abuse. Often these people are quite narrow minded, and want to force their narrow mindedness and limitations on others. I just thank goodness that I am not one of these people. I don't come here to belittle others or show off my knowledge, etc. We are all limited in some way, no one can know everything. I actually enjoy the diversity of opinions, and I like to read people's opinions on things that I don't know that much about. That's how I learn. If I was as limited as some of these people, I would probably give up listening to classical altogether. I mean I don't want to listen to the music of one era only, or of a certain genre, to the exclusion of all else. If I don't get into a variety of music, I see myself as missing out on many good things. I just wish some people could be more positive and take on this kind of attitude. You never know what you might learn if you become a bit more flexible. Isn't life meant to be a journey?

...rant over...

rubbish

[greg]

rubbish

rubbish

[Joe Barron]

After all the various bewildering arguments, controversies, insults, accusations, attacks, and denigrations, I believe it is time to create a thread here on GMG that will be a place of healing, bonding, and forgiving, for after all we have spend such a long time together here, and it is about time that we turn our heads at each other and say candidly, with a smile:
I want to Hug You!
Peace.

Oh, blow it out your bunghole, Saul. 

[drogulus]

rubbish

rubbish

     rubbish

[drogulus]

    Whose move is it?

[greg]

rubbish

rubbish

     rubbish

rubbish

[Saul]

rubbish

• Horseradish is best used freshly grated and raw.

• Scrub with a stiff brush and peel off the dark skin before using horseradish.

• In larger roots, the core may be fibrous and bitter. Remove and discard the core, along with any green spots.

[jowcol]

Actually-- I'd like to return to to the original goal of this thread. Gurn is right on-- the name-calling threads tend to get VERY tedious.  I've seen some great debates in this forum where many interesting perspectives and considerations are raised-- but the name calling ones tend to be very circular.

These are the tenets I try to follow-- please call me out when I don't adhere to them.

1.  Criticize ideas, not people.  (If you think an idea is stupid, socratic questioning and actual scholarship can dismantle it more effectively. )

2. No one "wins"-- If you debate a topic (which I like to do) and expect a clear victory, you are begging for a disappointment.  The best one can hope for is to develop a broader understanding.

3.  Qualifications and Credentials don't answer questions:  Wasting space saying "why" ones opinion is so valuable doesn't work as effectively as specific scholarship or reasoning to the problem at hand.

4. Try some emotional detachment: I've had one of closest people in my life blow their brains out with a shotgun 15 feet from me when I was 16.  I've had to sit in a pediatric ICU and watch my daughter get testing hourly for permanent brain damage. There's more I can share, and all of us have likely had to undergo some really rough times in the past.  How is having someone telling me that I'm full of it on an internet chat forum going to rival that for trauma?  The worst insults I've gotten here have had the unfortunate affect of making me giggle.   If you are truly secure with yourself, having someone disagree should not be considered a direct assault.

5.  Remember that music is fun, vital, and spiritual enriching, even if all discussions about it are not.

6.  Keep to the present.  The past is past.  Let it go:


(One of Jowcol's annoying Buddhist Proverbs follows)

Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.

Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.

"Come on, girl" said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.

Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"

"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"



7.  I try not to take what I'm saying too seriously.  Sometimes a bit of self-defecating humor comes in handy.   

8.  I'm proud to be an idiot.  That means there is so much more I can learn...




Anyway-- back to silliness.  As they say, life is too short to be taken seriously...

[drogulus]

Actually-- I'd like to return to to the original goal of this thread. Gurn is right on-- the name-calling threads tend to get VERY tedious.  I've seen some great debates in this forum where many interesting perspectives and considerations are raised-- but the name calling ones tend to be very circular.

These are the tenets I try to follow-- please call me out when I don't adhere to them.

1.  Criticize ideas, not people.  (If you think an idea is stupid, socratic questioning and actual scholarship can dismantle it more effectively. )

2. No one "wins"-- If you debate a topic (which I like to do) and expect a clear victory, you are begging for a disappointment.  The best one can hope for is to develop a broader understanding.

3.  Qualifications and Credentials don't answer questions:  Wasting space saying "why" ones opinion is so valuable doesn't work as effectively as specific scholarship or reasoning to the problem at hand.

4. Try some emotional detachment: I've had one of closest people in my life blow their brains out with a shotgun 15 feet from me when I was 16.  I've had to sit in a pediatric ICU and watch my daughter get testing hourly for permanent brain damage. There's more I can share, and all of us have likely had to undergo some really rough times in the past.  How is having someone telling me that I'm full of it on an internet chat forum going to rival that for trauma?  The worst insults I've gotten here have had the unfortunate affect of making me giggle.   If you are truly secure with yourself, having someone disagree should not be considered a direct assault.

5.  Remember that music is fun, vital, and spiritual enriching, even if all discussions about it are not.

6.  Keep to the present.  The past is past.  Let it go:


(One of Jowcol's annoying Buddhist Proverbs follows)

Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.

Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.

"Come on, girl" said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.

Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"

"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"



7.  I try not to take what I'm saying too seriously.  Sometimes a bit of self-defecating humor comes in handy.   

8.  I'm proud to be an idiot.  That means there is so much more I can learn...




Anyway-- back to silliness.  As they say, life is too short to be taken seriously...

     rubbish

     

     One tiny quibble, if I may (I don't know how much longer I can do this). I think we need more evidence of the value of opinions, whether it arrives as scholarship, reasoning or what have you. It amazes me how seldom you read "I think this, and this is why." I don't just want to read peoples opinions, I want to see the good part, the reasons for holding them. I will prefer a dubious opinion that's well justified to something that has initial plausibility but no support other than "you're crazy to think otherwise". Giving reasons is not only good for making posts more interesting to read, but because (oh well, what the hell) it shows respect for those who are reading. It says "I owe you reasons, because I'm not so self-infatuated that I think my opinion is valuable just because it's mine". Anyway it's a good habit to give reasons since it encourages you to find better reasons to give, or even better opinions.

     Another thing: Can we retire the word "drivel"? Also it would be good to dispense with the term "the masses". It's usually a bad sign when these show up in posts, IMNSHO.

     

[karlhenning]

Actually-- I'd like to return to to the original goal of this thread. Gurn is right on-- the name-calling threads tend to get VERY tedious.  I've seen some great debates in this forum where many interesting perspectives and considerations are raised-- but the name calling ones tend to be very circular.

These are the tenets I try to follow-- please call me out when I don't adhere to them.

1.  Criticize ideas, not people.  (If you think an idea is stupid, socratic questioning and actual scholarship can dismantle it more effectively. )

2. No one "wins"-- If you debate a topic (which I like to do) and expect a clear victory, you are begging for a disappointment.  The best one can hope for is to develop a broader understanding.

3.  Qualifications and Credentials don't answer questions:  Wasting space saying "why" ones opinion is so valuable doesn't work as effectively as specific scholarship or reasoning to the problem at hand.

4. Try some emotional detachment: I've had one of closest people in my life blow their brains out with a shotgun 15 feet from me when I was 16.  I've had to sit in a pediatric ICU and watch my daughter get testing hourly for permanent brain damage. There's more I can share, and all of us have likely had to undergo some really rough times in the past.  How is having someone telling me that I'm full of it on an internet chat forum going to rival that for trauma?  The worst insults I've gotten here have had the unfortunate affect of making me giggle.   If you are truly secure with yourself, having someone disagree should not be considered a direct assault.

5.  Remember that music is fun, vital, and spiritual enriching, even if all discussions about it are not.

6.  Keep to the present.  The past is past.  Let it go:


(One of Jowcol's annoying Buddhist Proverbs follows)

Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.

Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.

"Come on, girl" said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.

Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"

"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"



7.  I try not to take what I'm saying too seriously.  Sometimes a bit of self-defecating humor comes in handy.   

8.  I'm proud to be an idiot.  That means there is so much more I can learn...

Anyway-- back to silliness.  As they say, life is too short to be taken seriously...

All points well taken.

[karlhenning]

After all the various bewildering arguments, controversies, insults, accusations, attacks, and denigrations, I believe it is time to create a thread here on GMG that will be a place of healing . . . .

Why make a ghetto for good behavior? Why not be an agent of toleration and openness to the ideas of others elsewhere in the forum, too?

For one instance, in discussions of atonal music?

Do you have the courage to let other people be themselves, the courage to respect ideas which do not neatly align with your own, or only the mean weakness of scorn for anyone who disagrees with you?

[Saul]

Why make a ghetto for good behavior? Why not be an agent of toleration and openness to the ideas of others elsewhere in the forum, too?

For one instance, in discussions of atonal music?

Do you have the courage to let other people be themselves, the courage to respect ideas which do not neatly align with your own, or only the mean weakness of scorn for anyone who disagrees with you?

Did you hear the story "when the Wolf attacked the sheep"?

That's what you're doing now.

I always tried to separate the topic from the member, and not go into personal attacks. I was the one who was always attacked personally, and that's why I created the thread, that even though I and some others have been attacked, still for the sake of forgiveness, we should all come together.

But you again, for some odd reason, even here, attack me, this is unfortunate, cease and desist as they say, Karl. You should remember, you specifically and some others, having a PhD or any other Diploma doesn't give you the right to insult and attack people, I don't care what you are and what credentials you have, every human being deserves respect, once you will understand that, you and others, the site will be much better off.