Arabella

jhar26 · August 22, 2010, 03:42:16 PM

Quote from: Guido on August 11, 2010, 10:08:06 AM
Do you not find her a rather wooden and unsympathetic stage presence?

Not me - I think she's charming and attractive, and she has a sort of regal quality about her that makes her ideally suited for roles like the Marschallin, Arabella, Madeleine or Figaro's Countess.

Guido · August 23, 2010, 08:47:29 AM

Quote from: jhar26 on August 22, 2010, 03:42:16 PM
Not me - I think she's charming and attractive, and she has a sort of regal quality about her that makes her ideally suited for roles like the Marschallin, Arabella, Madeleine or Figaro's Countess.

Yeah that's what her supporters always say, but it doesn't convince me. Each to their own.

Tsaraslondon · August 23, 2010, 09:50:10 AM

Quote from: Guido on August 23, 2010, 08:47:29 AM
Yeah that's what her supporters always say, but it doesn't convince me. Each to their own.

I have a different take. I saw Kiri live at Covent Garden a couple of times. With the right director, she could be excellent. I wouldn't call her wooden (she had a beautiful and graceful stage presence) but she never struck me as someone who probed very deeply, meaning her Marschallin, for instance missed something. To be sure, there were compensations in the sheer beauty of the voice, and in some roles, generally those more passive heroines (The Countess and Desdemona for instance) she was close to ideal. She also made a surprisingly feisty Donna Elvira and an excellent Fiordilgi, her per pieta being a particular memory of mine.

Guido · August 23, 2010, 01:11:46 PM

Yes wooden isn't the right word perhaps... My complaints are much the same as yours - there's a lack of depth and thought in much of her singing, which the beauty of the voice only sometimes compensates for for me. The voice though is like her, very contained and not thin exactly but certainly not voluptuous. I don't know how to describe it. I agree she can be good - I did actually enjoy her Arabella DVD.

Tsaraslondon · August 23, 2010, 01:19:44 PM

Quote from: Guido on August 23, 2010, 01:11:46 PM
Yes wooden isn't the right word perhaps... My complaints are much the same as yours - there's a lack of depth and thought in much of her singing, which the beauty of the voice only sometimes compensates for for me. The voice though is like her, very contained and not thin exactly but certainly not voluptuous. I don't know how to describe it. I agree she can be good - I did actually enjoy her Arabella DVD.

In the theatre, it was a much larger voice than it sometimes sounds on record, and she also had that ability to float glorious pianissimi into the auditorium. When I was younger I confess to nicknaming her "dreary Kiri". These days I'm a trifle more charitable and find much to admire in her singing of Mozart especially. Certainly her Glyndebourne Figaro Countess, when she, along with Frederica Von Stade and Ileana Cotrubas, was on the threshold of an international career, is one of the best I have ever seen, and is thankfully preserved on DVD.

Guido · August 23, 2010, 02:23:38 PM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on August 23, 2010, 01:19:44 PM
In the theatre, it was a much larger voice than it sometimes sounds on record, and she also had that ability to float glorious pianissimi into the auditorium. When I was younger I confess to nicknaming her "dreary Kiri". These days I'm a trifle more charitable and find much to admire in her singing of Mozart especially. Certainly her Glyndebourne Figaro Countess, when she, along with Frederica Von Stade and Ileana Cotrubas, was on the threshold of an international career, is one of the best I have ever seen, and is thankfully preserved on DVD.

I'll have to look it out...

mc ukrneal · August 23, 2010, 10:51:25 PM

Quote from: Guido on August 23, 2010, 02:23:38 PM
I'll have to look it out...

Do. It is really worth it. The singers are great, and yet they create something worth more than their individual parts.

Guido · September 05, 2010, 04:25:51 AM

Arg - found this on ebay, but he refuses to send me it in the UK!

http://cgi.ebay.com/RICHARD-STRAUSS-ARABELLA-opera-on-3-cds-TE-KANAWA_W0QQitemZ390213200838QQcategoryZ46498QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D2%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5900484155214324645

Drasko · September 28, 2010, 02:06:37 AM

Is this production available on DVD (or audio)? Youtube info says 1963 but I think it is actually 1960 - this one.

http://www.youtube.com/v/q2Hpvsuo9Ko

Guido · January 01, 2011, 07:05:35 AM

Quote from: mjwal on July 24, 2010, 02:10:51 AM
I think FiDi's Barak is his best role, by the way.

Somehow missed this the first time - very interesting. He would never have survived the role on stage of course, but I can believe that he would bring the humanity that this part requires. I think the piece is wildly overrated by Straussians in general, but Barak's parts in isolation I can take! actually just thinking about the imprisonment scene now is making me want to hear it!

Just found the Kanawa version cheap online, so fingers crossed that they actually have it and will deliver!

mjwal · January 01, 2011, 08:41:14 AM

But Guido, the Keilberth recording is live, so he did survive the role in 1963...He and Inge Borkh are the highlights of the performance for me. I agree that the whole thing is indigestible, like an overstuffed Christmas pudding.

Guido · January 01, 2011, 10:48:50 AM

Really! I'm shocked. But then I don't know why I'm surprised - he did more repertoire (and more inapproprate repertoire) than anyone else. I'm even more curious to hear it now!

Really in that opera the first half hour (i.e. Act 1, Scene 1) is the most inspired (the Amme's monologue, the Falcon and the Kaiserin my favourite bit of all, the descent to the earth!), Act 1, Scene 2 is almost on the same level, and then after that it gets ever more pointless and uninspired, aside from a few sections - the imprisonment scene at the beginning of Act 3, and the tinsel ending is effective on its own terms (if I were cruel I would add: now that our standards have been so lowered by act 2 and half of act 3), though hardly the Wagnerian apotheosis which is clearly the intention or intended model.

Guido · January 14, 2011, 04:36:59 AM

Finally got the Te Kanawa/Tate Arabella - it's wonderful! The detail and warmth is brought out as never before possible in this recording as it was made in 1986 - the classic Della Casa version is amazing for its time, but still many of the subtleties are lost.

I am happy!

mc ukrneal · January 14, 2011, 07:03:15 AM

Hooray - he likes it! Perhaps I will make this my Saturday afternoon listen this weekend. I think you hit it on the head - detail and warmth.

Guido · January 14, 2011, 08:04:39 AM

I just reread your previous post - I see you agree about Zdenka. Act 2 particularly comes across very well in this recording, mercifully rescued from what can seem like a disjointed and disparate series of events, it emerges as a series of beautifully detailed and wonderfully imagined little highlights. Gwendolyn Bradley's Fiakermilli is completely fantastic, and doesn't at all out stay her welcome (where on earth did she go to - why didn't she record more!? I would love to hear her Zerbinetta.)

The end of Act 1 "Mein Elemir" is superbly done, as is the end of Act 3, "Das war sehr gut", and then "Dann aber" just ravishing. The languors before this in act 1, at the end of act 2, and the middle of act 3 are all very well sung and played here and all concerned do the absolute best they can with it. The highlights are all so wonderful that the whole thing works far better than I've heard it before.

mc ukrneal · January 14, 2011, 08:26:36 AM

Quote from: Guido on January 14, 2011, 08:04:39 AM
I just reread your previous post - I see you agree about Zdenka. Act 2 particularly comes across very well in this recording, mercifully rescued from what can seem like a disjointed and disparate series of events, it emerges as a series of beautifully detailed and wonderfully imagined little highlights. Gwendolyn Bradley's Fiakermilli is completely fantastic, and doesn't at all out stay her welcome (where on earth did she go to - why didn't she record more!? I would love to hear her Zerbinetta.)

The end of Act 1 "Mein Elemir" is superbly done, as is the end of Act 3, "Das war sehr gut", and then "Dann aber" just ravishing. The languors before this in act 1, at the end of act 2, and the middle of act 3 are all very well sung and played here and all concerned do the absolute best they can with it. The highlights are all so wonderful that the whole thing works far better than I've heard it before.

I was introduced to this opera by a huge Te Kanawa fan at the music store. They were so passionate about it, despite my reluctance, that I went for it. It was an eye opener for me, and I have been hooked ever since. I think on the next visit, she convinced me to get the Strauss Rosenkavalier (with Kiri of course), which is pretty good too. But I always felt that this one was just so ideal on so many levels. I've heard some other performances, but this is the one that really sparkles for me. And once I get going, like you, I seem to touch upon so many bits and pieces. And the sign of a good performance - I always hear something I never noticed before. It bears up under repeated listening well.

knight66 · February 06, 2011, 01:46:41 AM

Any idea how the version you have been discussing stacks up against this one?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41lsNQrHIlL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Solti conducting Janowitz. She looks too old....but then there is the voice. I have resisted this opera for a long time, getting by with about 20 minutes of beautiful exerptts on CD with Schwartzkopf. For some reason I formed an opinion that away from the obvious highlights, it was dry with yards of dialogue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-TqGKqrIZo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PMgvQnDU14&feature=related

Mike

Guido · February 06, 2011, 04:30:10 AM

your impression isn't that far off really, though the good bits are enough to warrant its moderately common revival. The story is rather uninvolving I find.

With regards to that opera DVD - Janowitz is not a great actress (reminds me of Jennifer Saunders in both looks and mannerisms!) - see the first 30 seconds of those two clips, so she's not that well served by the constant close ups in the film. For me she's not the ideal voice for Arabella - not very youthful sounding - a bit too powerful and magisterial! I wasn't able to sit through the whole thing, so maybe I'm not giving a totally fair assessment.

I also very much dislike opera DVDs where the people are miming to their own singing - I've never seen it done well (except in the famous Bohm Elektra, which is so stylised that it somehow works - probably because it's not trying to be naturalistic).

Maybe someone more sympathetic should chime in!

knight66 · February 06, 2011, 11:24:02 AM

Fair enough, thanks.

Mike

Tsaraslondon · February 07, 2011, 12:15:06 AM

Quote from: knight on February 06, 2011, 01:46:41 AM
Any idea how the version you have been discussing stacks up against this one?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41lsNQrHIlL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Solti conducting Janowitz. She looks too old....but then there is the voice. I have resisted this opera for a long time, getting by with about 20 minutes of beautiful exerptts on CD with Schwartzkopf. For some reason I formed an opinion that away from the obvious highlights, it was dry with yards of dialogue.

Mike

It's an age since I saw this. I was very young and saw it on TV, so long ago, that I believe I watched in black and white. It was my introduction to the opera and came from a time when I was soaking up every opera I could manage to see in whatever format I could. My memory is rather hazy, but I do remember enjoying it immensely, though I was rather more sympathetic to Rene Kollo's Matteo than I think one is supposed to be. I couldn't understand why Arabella was being so dismissive of him. Even then I remember finding the Fiakermilli episode extremely irritating.

Arabella

Drasko