riddle Shostakovich

[Henk]

A riddle: Is Shostakovich' music late-romantic? If not, what sort of music is it?

[Henk]

Take a guess, someone. I'm eager to reveal the answer to people.

[springrite]

I'd say Late Sarcastic.

[Henk]

No.

The answer:
Shostakovich' music is GRAND-STYLE!

Without joking, this characterization of Shostakovich' music should really be taken seriously, but I'm aware that in English it sounds funny. But really I think this labeling is like a discovery: with this label we listen with other ears to Shotakovich' music and discover the true greatness of it. Weren't we always looking after the grand-style in music? Until today we were unable to recognize it, but only until today!

[petrarch]

No.

The answer:
Shostakovich' music is GRAND-STYLE!

Without joking, this characterization of Shostakovich' music should really be taken seriously, but I'm aware that in English it sounds funny. But really I think this labeling is like a discovery: with this label we listen with other ears to Shotakovich' music and discover the true greatness of it. Weren't we always looking after the grand-style in music? Until today we were unable to recognize it, but only until today!

Couldn't this be said of most any other composer, if we loosen up the connotations of the term? In other words, leave your prejudice at the door and listen to composer x with unbiased ears and let the music move you. I don't see what makes that approach specific to Shostakovich.

[springrite]

Now we need a post-grand-style composer...

[Brian]

What does grand-style mean? Does it mean like Beethoven? Or does it mean really big? Or does it mean universal?

[Henk]

EDIT & REPOST:

What does grand-style mean? Does it mean like Beethoven? Or does it mean really big? Or does it mean universal?

Now this challenges my intellect, compared to Petrarch's pseudo-cynical response .

Grand style is something which can be found in architecture but less in music. Nietzsche makes use of the term grand-style. His work is according to himself also in "grand style".

free from Nietzsche:
All arts become in their most perfect expressions architecture. In music grand-style is something like architecture with sounds.

Some pictures of Pallazo Pitti, which is in grand-style according to Nietzsche, to get a feeling of what is grand-style:

[Henk]

Now we need a post-grand-style composer...

Not so sarcastic..

[kishnevi]

I'd suggest the term post-romantic, if you have to have a label.  But I'm not sure there is a label that would really catch everything of Shostakovich, or indeed most other great composers.   For in a sense, while they may typify music of a certain period--say Haydn and Mozart of the Classical period, or Schubert or Berlioz of the Romantic period--there is a certain universality to their music that allows it to speak to almost anyone who listens to it [Teresa being the exception that probes the rule   ]

And I have difficulty with the term grand-style, because it is so imprecise and so subjective that it is useless.  For instance,  Brother Friedrich thought the Pitti Palace grand-style; I think the palace (as opposed to the artwork housed there) is rather dreary and pedestrian, although I see the architectural aesthetics at work there--it's just the overall effect does not work for me.   As an example of grand-style, and sticking to Florence, I would pick the Doumo or the Medici Chapels--and there are others who undoubtedly could come and pick out something else as their preferred example of grandstyle in Florence.

[False_Dmitry]

What purpose do such labels serve?

More garbage to teach kids in "music appreciation" lessons

[Dana]

    Labels serve the purpose of grouping music together with similar compositions, so that when someone says "I like that! What else is out there like it?" We can point them towards a genre

    I like post-romantic for Shostakovich - it's a term that, according to my understanding, refers to a kind of music that explores the sound dynamic of music beyond the traditional harmonic and melodic parameters of classical and romantic music. However, since there are many different ways to accomplish this aim, we group them all under the flag of post-romanticism.

[False_Dmitry]

However, since there are many different ways to accomplish this aim, we group them all under the flag of post-romanticism.

How desperately sad.

[springrite]

Just call it Shostakovichism and all problems are solved!

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

What purpose do such labels serve?

I guess you missed some of Henk's earlier posts. He is one of those unfortunates who is unable to enjoy music unless he has everything classified according to some complicated intellectual schema.

[False_Dmitry]

"post-romanticism"?   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4fdfN4Tk_0&feature=related

[Henk]

I guess you missed some of Henk's earlier posts. He is one of those unfortunates who is unable to enjoy music unless he has everything classified according to some complicated intellectual schema.

Well, one sure can learn from it. I spend some time yesterday reading about it (grand style etc.) further with a summery in a book of thoughts from Nietzsche. But I rather want to read Nietzsche himself about it, but the texts about this subject are divided among all his books, so that makes it a bit difficult. But I digest something of it with makes it easier to understand more of it later.

I strongly believe in the possibility of civilizing one-self. I like to be critical to what I like. For example I don't listen to late-romantic anymore. I liked it for some time, but there was something wrong with it. Because of what Nietzsche says about it (see signature) I recognize it. Anyone needs to develop a taste, rather a feeling, about art, to learn, and when that's in an intellectual way one can learn more I think. I strive for the best, when one does not, one ends up as a ordinary, dull, uncivilized type of human being.

Henk

[False_Dmitry]

For example I don't listen to late-romantic anymore. I liked it for some time, but there was something wrong with it. Because of what Nietzsche says about it

Dare I ask which composers you've put on your banned "late-romantic" list? 

Because it seems to me you are running wild with your labels, sticking them to anything you find.

[Franco]

Why is what Nietzsche thought important?

[springrite]

Why is what Nietzsche thought important?

Also Sprach Nietzsche