Mahler vs. Strauss

[Dana]

    I voted for Strauss because by and large, he's more accessible. At least, in my little corner of the world. However, I think a world with both is much better than a world with only one

[BMW]

In her book, Alma presents the two has having a sort of love-hate friendship (at least on Mahler's end).*  Has anyone read more/have other thoughts about what their relationship was like?  I know there a book of their letters that I must read...


*but she did not seem to care for Mrs. Strauss at all

[DavidRoss]

Presently Mahler 12, R. Strauss 10, J&J Strauss 1.

I'm shocked.    Shocked, I say.    And I was wrong, wrong, wrong (not quite so shocking  ).  Ida thunk it'd be Gus over Dickie by at least a 2 to 1 margin.  Where are all the Mahler fan boys who used to populate this site?  (Maybe they're too busy listening to participate in yet another Mahler v. World poll...?)

[Guido]

In her book, Alma presents the two has having a sort of love-hate friendship (at least on Mahler's end).*  Has anyone read more/have other thoughts about what their relationship was like?  I know there a book of their letters that I must read...


*but she did not seem to care for Mrs. Strauss at all

I think Alma made a lot of things up in that book - the old Strauss was fairly exasperated at times about her misrepresentations and fabrications.

[kishnevi]

In her book, Alma presents the two has having a sort of love-hate friendship (at least on Mahler's end).*  Has anyone read more/have other thoughts about what their relationship was like?  I know there a book of their letters that I must read...


*but she did not seem to care for Mrs. Strauss at all

Alex Ross gives some details in The Rest is Noise, but it's been long enough since I've read the book that I don't remember specifics.  The overall impression was that they were friendly rivals, though perhaps there was a little envy on the part of Mahler, not so much on the grounds of greater popularity or professional success, but because Strauss, being Christian born, did not have to deal with some of the obstacles Mahler encountered (or thought he encountered) because of his Jewish birth.

[greg]

In her book, Alma presents the two has having a sort of love-hate friendship (at least on Mahler's end).*  Has anyone read more/have other thoughts about what their relationship was like?  I know there a book of their letters that I must read...


*but she did not seem to care for Mrs. Strauss at all

Where's Sarge?...

[Teresa]

Strauss!!! A hundred times Strauss.

Me too    Don't get me wrong I do love some of Mahler's Symphonies (Nos. 1, 5 and 6) but I could not live without Richard Strauss' wonderful Tone poems!  Especially Also sprach Zarathustra, Don Juan, Death and Transfiguration, Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks and Ein Heldenleben. 

[jochanaan]

Alma reports her husband as saying once: "Strauss and I tunnel from the opposite sides of the mountain.  One day we shall meet."  What GM actually meant by that, I have no idea.

[MDL]

One of the great ding-dong battles of classical music! Love it! I voted for Mahler, but if we were in a Desert Island Discs situation, I'd probably dump a Mahler song cycle or two, and maybe even a symphony, because life without Salome, Elektra, Zarathustra and the Alpine Symphony would be unthinkable.

Mahler was apparently blown away by Salome. His reaction to Elektra was more controversial. Was he really "bored"; was he "intimidated" as some claim?

[marvinbrown]

  I voted Strauss! As much as I like Mahler I'd say that Strauss' operas and tone poems have tilted the scale in his favor. I especially love the passages for soprano (Strauss' favorite voice) in Strauss' operas.

  marvin

[PaulR]

Since the poll is about the favorite of the two, and not better......I say Mahler.

I still haven't warmed up to Strauss for some reason.  I am sure with time, I'll be more appreciative of Strauss, and enjoy more works by him. z

[Superhorn]

   Apples and oranges.  Both are truly great composers,and I love them both.

[Sergeant Rock]

Where's Sarge?...

Out to lunch...but not before voting for Gus.

Sarge

[BMW]

Alma reports her husband as saying once: "Strauss and I tunnel from the opposite sides of the mountain.  One day we shall meet."  What GM actually meant by that, I have no idea.

Maybe (and this is based on the potentially flawed portrait of Strauss Alma paints) because Mahler felt that Strauss was working towards a similar artistic goal as himself, but for different reasons -- Mahler for art's sake and Strauss for box office receipts.  Mahler also predicted that his day would come when Strauss' had ended.  Mahler's day has certainly come, but would anybody say Strauss' has in fact ended (or has in any way diminished?).

[DavidRoss]

Alma reports her husband as saying once: "Strauss and I tunnel from the opposite sides of the mountain.  One day we shall meet."  What GM actually meant by that, I have no idea.

Hmmm.  Perhaps that both were expanding the vocabulary of music in the orchestral mainstream, Ricky as l'enfant terrible from without, Gus as the wanna-be doyen of Vienna from within (or perhaps also from without as a Bohemian Jew?).  When I listen to Der Abschied oder Vier letzte Lieder (other examples could be chosen as well), it seems that Gus's prophecy was fulfilled.

[jhar26]

Maybe (and this is based on the potentially flawed portrait of Strauss Alma paints) because Mahler felt that Strauss was working towards a similar artistic goal as himself, but for different reasons -- Mahler for art's sake and Strauss for box office receipts.  Mahler also predicted that his day would come when Strauss' had ended.  Mahler's day has certainly come, but would anybody say Strauss' has in fact ended (or has in any way diminished?).

Strauss loved to live a comfortable life, but he was also careless with his money. No, the main difference between the two as I see it is that Mahler was more religious while Strauss was an atheist. But Mahler respected Strauss' music a lot going by how eager he was to conduct premieres of Strauss' operas in Vienna (Strauss usually gave the honour to Ernst von Schuh in Dresden though). Maybe there was some resentment on Mahler's part because Strauss was popularity wise where he wanted to get, but I don't really think so. And vice versa there definitely weren't any bad feelings because Mahler wasn't really a threat to Strauss' status as most celebrated composer of the time.

[mjwal]

As far as that statement by Alma M-W goes - anyone she hated is a friend of mine, so cheers Pauline! A. M-W. was one of the most self-serving dishonest manipulators of the last century - I couldn't bear to re-read those awful books of hers.

[quintett op.57]

Strauss.

For his poems, operas, lieders, piano and even chamber music (his short string sextet is a marvel)

I do appreciate his concertos, but if find them less brilliant in general (nevertheless, I like the oboe concerto very much).

[Air]

Strauss edges out Mahler by a narrow margin.

But when I consider the symphonies, the fantastic tone poems, the endlessly fascinating song cycles, the underrated concerti, the amazing yet neglected choral works, and the nearly forgotten piano works - topped off by some of the most monumental operas of the time - I suppose the win is well deserved.

[knight66]

Every time I return to this thread I change my mind. I did not vote and don't think I will.

Mike