Second-Tier English Symphonies

[Luke]

You guys just wait until I've written mine!

In the meantime, though, I want to chime in with my support for Brian - no 8 remains my favourite, but I'd have thought any of 1, 3, and the series from 7-10 would have wide appeal to those with broad minds (though there are many equally fine symphonies elsewhere in the 32). Personally, I've always thought that no 8 was simply one of the very finest symphonies of the century, full stop. Totally original, like all Brian, and inspired from first note to last, it epitomises the best of Brian and none of his faults, and it shows how true symphonic thinking doesn't have to be anything like the traditional symphony, and still result in music which could only ever be a symphony.

As far as Tippett goes - well, he's one of my very favourite composers, and I love his human quirks, his fabulous bravery and daring, in short I love what is faulty about his music as much as I love what is perfect. Which is a good thing, because in general the symphonies do have their problems, according to most lights. Personally, I love them all, but I'd say that number 2 is the most free-from-fault and also captures Tippett in the first flush of his full maturity. To be clear, Tippett isn't a symphonist in the sense that Brian, Lloyd, Rubbra, many of the others on this list are - IOW a composer who thought almost exclusively in symphonic terms. No, he's simply a major composer of real importance who happened to write symphonies amongst other things. Seeing him in this context is somewhat strange for me, for some reason 

[Scarpia]

1. Bantock - Celtic Symphony (or the Hebridean Symphony)
2. Brian - Symphony No.7
3. Bliss - A Colour Symphony
4. Parry - Symphony No.3 (or No.5)
5. Boughton - Symphony No.3
6. Dyson - Symphony in G
7. Rawsthorne - Symphony No.2 (the Naxos CD includes all 3)*
8. Alwyn - Symphony No.3*
9. Leighton - Symphony for strings
10. Scott - Symphony No.3
11. Simpson - Symphony No.9
12. Lloyd - Symphony No.4

*These ones might be out of the question if, as you mention, you are not looking for slightly advanced tonality such as Simpson.

Surprised no Malcolm Arnold on that list. (Maybe you rate him first tier?)

[Lethevich]

The original poster's first-tier list and inclusion of Arnold seems agreeable to me (although it brings up problems on the basis of "achivement" in general - if Moeran is included, Delius must be, yet Delius wrote no symphonies). In terms of quality Arnold is more imperfect than the other major figures, but he has sufficient stature for it to seem unreasonable to put him alongside composers like Lloyd, Scott and Dyson, who most music fans haven't heard of. His diversity and ability, regardless of the occasional misfire, are also easy to underrate when compared to composers who stuck with what they knew and did it well, such as Bax.

[Scarpia]

The original poster's first-tier list and inclusion of Arnold seems agreeable to me (although it brings up problems on the basis of "achivement" in general - if Moeran is included, Delius must be, yet Delius wrote no symphonies). In terms of quality Arnold is more imperfect than the other major figures, but he has sufficient stature for it to seem unreasonable to put him alongside composers like Lloyd, Scott and Dyson, who most music fans haven't heard of. His diversity and ability, regardless of the occasional misfire, are also easy to underrate when compared to composers who stuck with what they knew and did it well, such as Bax.

Ooops, missed the mention in the OP.   

[vandermolen]

Interesting thread:

Stanley Bate: Symphony No 3
Ruth Gipps: Symphony 4
Bantock: Pagan Symphony
Alwyn: Symphony No 2
Rubbra: Symphony No 5
Bliss: A Colour Symphony
Rootham: Symphony
Clifford: Symphony 1940
Bainton: Symphony No 3
Arnell: Symphony No 5
Armstrong-Gibbs 'Westmorland Symphony'
Goossens Symphony No 1

[The new erato]

vandermolen, what about the Joubert no 1?

[jowcol]

Interesting thread:

Stanley Bate: Symphony No 3
Ruth Gipps: Symphony 4
Bantock: Pagan Symphony
Alwyn: Symphony No 2
Rubbra: Symphony No 5
Bliss: A Colour Symphony
Rootham: Symphony
Clifford: Symphony 1940
Bainton: Symphony No 3
Arnell: Symphony No 5
Armstrong-Gibbs 'Westmorland Symphony'
Goossens Symphony No 1

I had Bainton classified as an Austrailian but that may be debateable.  I really love his second.

[vandermolen]

I had Bainton classified as an Austrailian but that may be debateable.  I really love his second.

Yes, I think you are right about Bainton - so I'll change that to Joubert's Symphony 

I could have included Daniel Jones Symphony No 1 or Grace Williams Symphony No 2 but they are both Welsh and the thread specifies 'English' not 'British' 

[jowcol]

Yes, I think you are right about Bainton - so I'll change that to Joubert's Symphony 

I could have included Daniel Jones Symphony No 1 or Grace Williams Symphony No 2 but they are both Welsh and the thread specifies 'English' not 'British' 

According to Wikipedia, he grew up in England , had this misfortune to be at the Bayreuth festival in 1914 when the war broke out and was detained as a prisoner for the duration of the war, and resettled to Australia around 1930. (Don't have the article in front of me.)    I think he wrote his symphonies while in Autsralia.

[The new erato]

According to Wikipedia, he grew up in England , had this misfortune to be at the Bayreuth festival in 1914 when the war broke out

A real misfortune to be at Bayreuth. Pity about the war as well.

[canninator]

No Robert Simpson? For shame, you can all go and sit on the naughty step 

I'll vote for the 9th ( I know, I can be so cliche)

Walton's 1st is worth a dabble.

[The new erato]

Walton's 1st is worth a dabble.

But hardly second-tier.

[karlhenning]

I just want to express gratitude that we aren't discussing third-tier English symphonies here ; )

[karlhenning]

You guys just wait until I've written mine!

I look forward to that! I think you have it in you to break above the second tier, though!

[vandermolen]

Stanford's 'Irish Symphony' is a good second-rate English symphony.

[listener]

Stanford's 'Irish Symphony' is a good second-rate English symphony.

So is Sir Arthur Sullivan's "Irish Symhony"

[Dax]

a good second-rate English symphony.

Too much for the mental faculties so early in the morning . . .

[Mirror Image]

Stanford's 'Irish Symphony' is a good second-rate English symphony.

But alas, Stanford was Irish, so this disqualifies him from the running.

[mjwal]

Some that I enjoy, 2nd tier or whatever: Humphrey Searle, Benjamin Frankel (CPO) and that very nice EMI single disc collection of Fricker #2, Orr and Simpson #1, which should not be missed. More recently, the symphonies of Peter Maxwell Davies, Nos #2, 5 and 6 of which I rate very highly.

[vandermolen]

Some that I enjoy, 2nd tier or whatever: Humphrey Searle, Benjamin Frankel (CPO) and that very nice EMI single disc collection of Fricker #2, Orr and Simpson #1, which should not be missed. More recently, the symphonies of Peter Maxwell Davies, Nos #2, 5 and 6 of which I rate very highly.

The Orr, Simpson, Fricker CD is indeed excellent. Simpson's First Symphony is my favourite of all his symphonies and Boult's performance is excellent.  The end of the Fricker is very exciting and the Orr is a neglected gem - a concise, eloquent and memorable score containing echoes of Carlos Chavez (especially his 'Antigone Symphony' - No 4).