Art and Christian faith

[abidoful]

Any Believers/Christians here? Do you guys have any troubles with western culture and classical music? Darwin - Nietzsche - Freud - Steiner? How do you cope with anti-Christian art? Do you just stay away from it or what?I like Messiaen who was a Catholic and Wagner's Parsifal which shows God's Power =)

Please, answer only if this touches you personally--if you are believ in Jesus Christ and have struggled with these same problems

[karlhenning]

"Cope" is an interesting verb there! : )

[Josquin des Prez]

Christianity has been greatly enriched by the creative genius of the European peoples. I can't think of any other religion that has enjoyed such a privilege to such a high degree.

[abidoful]

Guys, you're not helping me ! 

God has enriched European culture not the other way around....

[MN Dave]

The Internet is a tool of the devil, so right away you're in trouble. 

[Josquin des Prez]

Guys, you're not helping me ! 

God has enriched European culture not the other way around....

It went both ways. Christianity never received such a lofty treatment elsewhere, and i doubt European art would have achieved such a level of transcendence without the help of religion.

[karlhenning]

It went both ways. Christianity never received such a lofty treatment elsewhere, and i doubt European art would have achieved such a level of transcendence without the help of religion.

I think you may be missing a semantic point.  You are right the Chistianity has benefited. But he is also right, the idea that our culture could "enrich God" is absurd.

[abidoful]

Very helpful---*sigh
No Believers here??

[Josquin des Prez]

I think you may be missing a semantic point.  You are right the Chistianity has benefited. But he is also right, the idea that our culture could "enrich God" is absurd.

I'm arguing from the point of view that God and Christianity are two distinct entities.

[karlhenning]

I'm arguing from the point of view that God and Christianity are two distinct entities.

Ho capito.

[karlhenning]

Very helpful---*sigh
No Believers here??

I believe; what problems do you believe I should have with Western art? After all, I am creating some of it, myself.

[MN Dave]

Is this a Christian b-flat?

[Brahmsian]

I believe; what problems do you believe I should have with Western art? After all, I am creating some of it, myself.

But Karl, aren't you on from the East Coast? 

[karlhenning]

Babylonia! : )

[abidoful]

I believe; what problems do you believe I should have with Western art? After all, I am creating some of it, myself.

I wish you success with your composing---this thread is about MY problems

[karlhenning]

Okay; what problems do you have with Western art? : )

[Joe Barron]

But he is also right, the idea that our culture could "enrich God" is absurd.

With all respect to the beliefs of everyone here, I would qualify this  (but then I would).  It seems to me our ideas about what God is and how he, she or it relates to us are mediated through art, whether music, painting or creative literature (and I would include the Bible and theology in the latter category). No one here has even seen or heard God directly as an object of sense experience, and when we want to relate to him, or her, or it, we must rely on art to set the proper reverential mood. Without the psalms, the Sistine chapel,  the music of Bach, or the preaching of televangelists, we could hardly imagine God at all. (Mahler's Second is the closest I personally have come to a religious experience in 30 years.) At bottom, religion is theater: the prayers, incense, vestments, music, statues and sermons all "enrich" God — that is, they enhance the experience of God for those susceptible to that experience. They may even create it, or serve as a substitute. To those of us who aren 't susceptible to the experience, or who actively resist it, some of the art expresses of the power of the human mind. The rest is just puzzling. 

I know abidoful  wants to hear only from other Christians, but that's my atheistic two-cents worth.

[abidoful]

I know abidoful  wants to hear only from other Christians, but that's my atheistic two-cents worth.

Amen to that---thank's anyway for your contribution

karlhenning,
so much of western art is connected to different kind of philosophies which have nothing to do with christianity....as a believer that is a problem. (How to listen steinerist-theosophist Scriabin; should i just skip everything else and just focus on "the music"....?)

[MN Dave]

I'm thankful to whomever that I don't have this problem. 

[Joe Barron]

  so much of western art is connected to different kind of philosophies which have nothing to do with christianity....as a believer that is a problem. (How to listen steinerist-theosophist Scriabin; should i just skip everything else and just focus on "the music"....?)

Why not? It's what I do with Bach.