French Baroque Music

[Opus106]

I want to find the texts -- in Latin though preferably with a translation into either English or French -- of the selections from Lamentations which Couperin used in the  Leçons de ténèbres. But I just can't find this on line.

Get Hyperion's sleeve notes [direct link] to their recording of this work.

[Mandryka]

Get Hyperion's sleeve notes [direct link] to their recording of this work.

That looks promising but I can't see how to get to it. If I click on the link it just says that I have to navigate directly, and the same if I try to follow the link you used. I can't see where to click to get to their notes!

This is very tantalising.

[Mandryka]

This one ?

http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Le%C3%A7ons_de_t%C3%A9n%C3%A8bres_(Fran%C3%A7ois_Couperin)


http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Lamentations_of_Jeremiah

The article on Couperin´s "Lecons" there
(link, apparently can´t be copied to here) specifies the selections he used.

So he used Lamentations of Jeremiah. 1:1-5; 1:6-9; 1:10-13

That must be

Day 1

1:1 ALEPH. Quomodo sedet sola civitas plena populo! Facta est quasi vidua domina gentium; princeps provinciarum facta est sub tributo.
1:2 BETH. Plorans ploravit in nocte, et lacrimæ ejus in maxillis ejus: non est qui consoletur eam, ex omnibus caris ejus; omnes amici ejus spreverunt eam, et facti sunt ei inimici.
1:3 GHIMEL. Migravit Judas propter afflictionem, et multitudinem servitutis; habitavit inter gentes, nec invenit requiem: omnes persecutores ejus apprehenderunt eam inter angustias.
1:4 DALETH. Viæ Sion lugent, eo quod non sint qui veniant ad solemnitatem: omnes portæ ejus destructæ, sacerdotes ejus gementes; virgines ejus squalidæ, et ipsa oppressa amaritudine.
1:5 HE. Facti sunt hostes ejus in capite; inimici ejus locupletati sunt: quia Dominus locutus est super eam propter multitudinem iniquitatum ejus. Parvuli ejus ducti sunt in captivitatem ante faciem tribulantis.

Day 2

1:6 VAU. Et egressus est a filia Sion omnis decor ejus; facti sunt principes ejus velut arietes non invenientes pascua, et abierunt absque fortitudine ante faciem subsequentis.
1:7 ZAIN. Recordata est Jerusalem dierum afflictionis suæ, et prævaricationis, omnium desiderabilium suorum, quæ habuerat a diebus antiquis, cum caderet populus ejus in manu hostili, et non esset auxiliator: viderunt eam hostes, et deriserunt sabbata ejus.
1:8 HETH. Peccatum peccavit Hierusalem, propterea instabilis facta est: omnes qui glorificabant eam spreverunt illam: quia viderunt ignominiam eius: ipsa autem gemens et conversa retrorsum.
1:9 TETH. Sordes eius in pedibus eius: nec recordata est finis sui. Deposita est vehementer: non habens consolatorem. Vide Domine afflictionem meam: quoniam erectus est inimicus.

Day 3

1:10 IOD. Manum suam misit hostis ad omnia desiderabilia ejus, quia vidit gentes ingressas sanctuarium suum, de quibus præceperas ne intrarent in ecclesiam tuam.
1:11 CAPH. Omnis populus ejus gemens, et quærens panem; dederunt pretiosa quæque pro cibo ad refocillandam animam. Vide, Domine, et considera quoniam facta sum vilis!
1:12 LAMED. O vos omnes qui transitis per viam, attendite, et videte si est dolor sicut dolor meus! quoniam vindemiavit me, ut locutus est Dominus, in die iræ furoris sui.
1:13 MEM. De excelso misit ignem in ossibus meis et erudivit me: expandit rete pedibus meis: convertit me retrorsum: posuit me desolatam tota die maerore confectam.

Or in English

Day 1

1:1 ALEPH. How lonely sits the city that was full of people! How like a widow has she become, she that was great among the nations! She that was a princess among the cities has become a vassal.
1:2 BETH. She weeps bitterly in the night, tears on her cheeks; among all her lovers she has none to comfort her; all her friends have dealt treacherously with her, they have become her enemies.
1:3 GHIMEL. Judah has gone into exile because of affliction and hard servitude; she dwells now among the nations, but finds no resting place; her pursuers have all overtaken her in the midst of her distress.
1:4 DALETH. The roads to Zion mourn, for none come to the appointed feasts; all her gates are desolate, her priests groan; her maidens have been dragged away, and she herself suffers bitterly.
1:5 HE. Her foes have become the head, her enemies prosper, because the LORD has made her suffer for the multitude of her transgressions; her children have gone away, captives before the foe.

Day 2

1:6 VAU. From the daughter of Zion has departed all her majesty. Her princes have become like harts that find no pasture; they fled without strength before the pursuer.
1:7 ZAIN. Jerusalem remembers in the days of her affliction and bitterness all the precious things that were hers from days of old. When her people fell into the hand of the foe, and there was none to help her, the foe gloated over her, mocking at her downfall.
1:8 HETH. Jerusalem sinned grievously, therefore she became filthy; all who honored her despise her, for they have seen her nakedness; yea, she herself groans, and turns her face away.
1:9 Her uncleanness was in her skirts; she took no thought of her doom; therefore her fall is terrible, she has no comforter. "O LORD, behold my affliction, for the enemy has triumphed!"

Day 3

1:10 IOD. The enemy has stretched out his hands over all her precious things; yea, she has seen the nations invade her sanctuary, those whom thou didst forbid to enter thy congregation.
1:11 CAPH. All her people groan as they search for bread; they trade their treasures for food to revive their strength. "Look, O LORD, and behold, for I am despised."
1:12 LAMED. "Is it nothing to you, all you who pass by? Look and see if there is any sorrow like my sorrow which was brought upon me, which the LORD inflicted on the day of his fierce anger."
1:13 MEM. "From on high he sent fire; into my bones he made it descend; he spread a net for my feet; he turned me back; he has left me stunned, faint all the day long.

[nico1616]

I do not find many opera recommendations here.

No one is better than Minkowski as conductor of French Baroque opera.
My favorites are
1. Platée - Rameau: one of the best opera recordings ever made and yes, opera can be funny
2. Dardanus - Rameau: a famous composer said there was enough music in this one for 10 operas
3. Mouret - Les Amours de Ragonde: don't let the cover put you off

Nico

[Opus106]

That looks promising but I can't see how to get to it. If I click on the link it just says that I have to navigate directly, and the same if I try to follow the link you used. I can't see where to click to get to their notes!

This is very tantalising.

I'm sorry, I forgot Hyperion's stringent policy on hot-linking to stuff on their servers. You can get it from the CD's page.

[Mandryka]

As far as Couperin's Leçons are concerned, what has been nice is that one recording from those I've heard really does shine out, and that's Deller's first with Harry Gabb. His voice is very beautiful and fresh   much more so than in the later record with Chapuis. The timbre is alien, other worldly, again more so than on Deller2. . It's a very spiritual, reflective interpretation, and his attention to the text is astonishing and very revealing. It really is a help to have the text so thanks for all the links posted here. Making the text meaningful  matters most to me so if you have other priorities then maybe Deller1 won't be for you. I can certainly imagine that some will find the slow tempos too much.

I should add that I've certainly not heard all recordings of it -- I have Leppard, Rousset, Les Demoiselles de Saint Cyr, all the records Cuenod made of it, two records with Deller. I've ordered Jacobs' record. I'm curious about Lesne (who seems to have recorded it twice -- I'm downloading both right now) and Kirkby/Hogwood.  I'm interested in this music.

[milk]

I wonder if anyone has checked this out:

I think it's a wonderful performance. And the instrument and sound quality are extraordinary!   

[Opus106]

Hantaï looks old!

[asin]B00865P3CG[/asin]

[Mandryka]

Blandine Verlet recorded the complete F Couperin harpsichord pieces for Astree in the mid to late 1080s. I only know it through the compilation CDs called Les barricades mystérieuses.
She's just published, over 25 years after, a new recording of five suites, mostly from very late works, but including a record of the 8th suite from Book 2.

What is interesting is the way her style has changed -- she now presents us with an F Couperin who seems  more reflective and introvert. Tempos are sometimes much are slower. The amount of variety she finds in the expression of the music -- in the 8th suite for example -- is astonishing. I don't like the new recording more than the parts of the old that I've heard. On the contrary,  it's made me feel inspired enough to  think I should start to collect all the 1980s F Couperin records she made. But I do think that this new record is really very interesting.

[Mandryka]

Hantaï looks old!

[asin]B00865P3CG[/asin]

He looks like how he looked in when I saw him in Paris in April.

What do you think of Hantai?

[Opus106]

What do you think of Hantai?

Haven't heard him. I know his GV is regarded highly in some quarters, and my image of him comes from that (Mirare) album's cover. Guess I misjudged his age. Anway, the CD posted above is soon to be released, and I thought it would interest the regulars of this thread. I'm slowly making my way through the French hpsd repertoire.

[TheGSMoeller]

I do not find many opera recommendations here.

No one is better than Minkowski as conductor of French Baroque opera.
My favorites are
1. Platée - Rameau: one of the best opera recordings ever made and yes, opera can be funny
2. Dardanus - Rameau: a famous composer said there was enough music in this one for 10 operas
3. Mouret - Les Amours de Ragonde: don't let the cover put you off

Nico

Good ones, Nico. That Platée recording is one of my most played Rameau discs. The Castor et Pollux recording on Naxos is also a good one, and if you don't have it yet, I recommend getting the aria disc with Jean-Paul Fouchecourt, also on Naxos.

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[Mandryka]

Which are the best records of L'apothéose de Lully? I'm enjoying London Baroque, partly because it comes with the descriptions of what the music represents before each piece and that seems to really add to the experience. Also when Apollo comes onto the scene I think their performances sound really noble.

[nico1616]

Good ones, Nico. That Platée recording is one of my most played Rameau discs. The Castor et Pollux recording on Naxos is also a good one, and if you don't have it yet, I recommend getting the aria disc with Jean-Paul Fouchecourt, also on Naxos.

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I have the Fouchécourt disc, a great souvenir to his performance as Platée in the Flemish opera in 1999
I only own the Castor et Pollux recording of William Christie and I find it rather dull, maybe it is time to try another since I love Rameau ...

[Drasko]

I do not find many opera recommendations here.

There is a separate thread on French baroque opera.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7641.0.html

[milk]

Hantaï looks old!

[asin]B00865P3CG[/asin]

I noticed an entire two hour concert on youtube of Sempe and Hantai performing this material:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy1_4pBag_8

[Opus106]

I noticed an entire two hour concert on youtube of Sempe and Hantai performing this material:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy1_4pBag_8

Thanks for the find!

EDIT: Skip directly to 11:40 to hear something other than murmurs, sounds of feet shuffling and people coughing.

[Mandryka]

How sober and square and old fashioned these guys look. Like two crusty university university types. I like baroque music more and more -- I much prefer it to contemporary classical music. But I really don't want to be associated with that look.

[Opus106]

How sober and square and old fashioned these guys look. Like two crusty university university types. I like baroque music more and more -- I much prefer it to contemporary classical music. But I really don't want to be associated with that look.

My thoughts, exactly! I notice this particularly when watching HIP/PI concerts (on YouTube only, sadly ), when the image of the performer(s) sometimes starkly contrasts the (spirit of the) music. Of course, I also realise that at the time when the chambers within the palaces of Europe were full of this music, people were a tad OTT with their formal attire. It's just our mental associations, I suppose.

[Leo K.]

Just a technical question.

Is there a reason why Couperin's harpsichord is particularly hard to transpose to a modern piano? I know it was often written for an instrument with two manuals, and that may make simple music on the harpsichord into a technical challenge on a single manual instrument. But wan't a lot of Bach written for a two manual harpsichord too? Anyway pianists can rise to virtuoso music.

I find myself with mixed views about the Couperin piano I've heard -- Cziffra, Sokolov and Tharaud. The piano seems to trivialise the music a bit, over sweeten it, compared with the two harpsichordists I've heard play it (Verlet and Landowska)

But that may be to do with the pianists rather than transcription problems.

What do you think of Hewitt's Couperin CD?

I have to admit being enchanted with Tharaud's Couperin disk this weekend, my first hearing of Couperin on piano.

For me, Couperin's sound is not sweetened but rather, given a different mood that shifts my point of view of the music, in a good way.